Disillusioned with Standard Horizon and their HX300E hh VHF... or am I being unreasonable? (Warning: A long read!)

[syvictoria]

Right, are you sitting comfortably...?!

I am unfortunately the owner of an HX300E handheld VHF which I am very disappointed with. I have been in contact with SH and received what I perceive to be a very unsatisfactory response from them. But perhaps my expectations are too high? I wonder, am I being unreasonable? Perhaps, if you're bored this afternoon, you'd like to give me your take on the subject!!!

The backstory...

I purchased a handheld HX300E back in 2022 to use in the inland waterways of mainland Europe. I took the VHF out to the boat in the Netherlands and enabled ATIS. This resulted in problem #1. Enabling ATIS seemingly limits the radio's available channels to just 15 and 17, effectively rendering the radio useless! The radio was subsequently relegated to a locker and largely forgotten about other than for recharging periodically. Then comes along problem #2. In order to comply with VDES regulations (which I believe have been under development since c.2017 at least?), I will at my cost need to send the radio to a dealer to have it reprogrammed in order to remain/legally use the radio! This is both inconvenient, particularly when abroad, and given problem #1, it would also clearly be throwing good money after bad! I therefore instead opted to bring the radio back to the UK this summer in order to attempt to sell it on to someone who will hopefully have better luck with it and their intended use. And then along came problem #3! There appears to be no way for me to remove my ATIS number from the radio without, again, returning it to a dealer at my cost.

Overall I am DEEPLY disappointed with the functionality of the HX300E. It would seem that other radios (for example ICOM) don't suffer with some/all of the above problems, and the SH sales literature for this model even specifically mentions it's potential (in theory) suitability for use in the European inland waterways. To me, it seems entirely unfit for this purpose, and this was equally true back when I purchased it in 2022 (with 3 years warranty).

I've made contact with SH via email and have received a very unsatisfactory response which is both disappointing in terms of customer service and also, I believe, factually incorrect:

"Dear xxx,

I am sorry that you are not happy with your HX300E. However the issues you have are down to the applicable regulations that the HX300E had to meet when it was designed.

The system for changing the ATIS number was part of the European Standard which the radio had to adhere to. Also the channels which were available on a handheld were also not down to us, these two channels were the only ones that were allowed under the RAINWAT Agreement at that time.

VDES is not coming into force until January 2028 so radios of the age of the HX300E will not be compliant as their firmware was designed long before VDES was announced.

The only way for the ATIS number to be deleted and the channels to be modified for ATIS and VDES will be to send it to a retailer or distributor for reprogramming, for which there will be a cost.

I am afraid there is no way for you to return the radio, as it is not faulty.

Kind Regards

xxx

Yaesu UK Ltd"

I have replied pointing out that, as far as I'm aware, implementation of VDES in NL/B/FR has actually already commenced (from 2023/24), and that my HX300E is a mere 2.5 years old (not exactly ancient!) and was still showing as a current model on the SH website when I made my purchase in 2022. I have also argued that SH's strict implementation of RAINWAT appears to be at odds with that of other manufacturers (e.g.: ICOM) who have to meet the same requirements and yet don't render their radios useless with just channels 15 and 17. In fact, research on line suggests that not even all HX300Es are supplied with this restriction! For example, post #2 at Needing new VHF radio suggests that the poster received a far more sympathetic - and honest - response when they raised the same issue (* post #2 copied and pasted below).

Disappointingly, I have received no further response from SH...

If you're still reading at this stage (! - and thank you!), what do you think? Are my expectations - product- or customer service- wise - just unrealistically high? What would you do now, barring of course the obvious option of selling my HX300E on here at a loss?

TIA! Looking forward to your replies, and potentially a bashing (ducking for cover!)!

* Any UK chandler can supply a basic VHF. Force4, Marinescene, Piplers, etc, etc. A basic handheld can be had for under £100. You may have to argue about the ATIS settings. My recent handheld (enough for for <20m in France) arrived with only Ch 15 & 17 as "handheld is only valid for intra-ship channels". A swift conversation with the importer got that fixed, enabling all channels inc 31, by quoting Rainwat.. It was a Standard Horizon HX300 from Marinescene, which happened to be the cheapest offer at the time. The importer said "Some VHFs are shipped limited to 15/17 like this one and others come correctly set up. and we get this all the time". All VHF manufacturers have a 'low-end' or 'just the minimum you need' option.. Which is best value depends on this week's offer and the channel restrictions could happen on any.

(Edited to improve readability.)

 

[Biggles Wader]

I suspect that if you had rejected the goods as soon as you first discovered their limitations when you programmed it back in 2022 you might have got a better response from the vendor or the maker. Two years later it will be hard to demonstrate that they or the goods were at fault or misrepresented in some way so they wash their hands and fob you off. I won't be buying one!

 

[Sandy]

Errrrr ummmm. What exactly are you asking SH for?

By the sounds of it you have the radio activated for use on inland waterways in Europe.

Do you now want it changed back to use on the open sea? Have you asked SH if this can be done? Are you asking if anybody here knows how to change the radio from inland waterways use to open sea use?

 

[Bilgediver]

Errrrr ummmm. What exactly are you asking SHt

By the sounds of it you have the radio activated for use on inland waterways in Europe.

Do you now want it changed back to use on the open sea? Have you asked SH if this can be done? Are you asking if anybody here knows how to change the radio from inland waterways use to open sea use?

I am sure there will be a simple way go switch the radio back to normal mode. SH have designed the radio to meet the rules.
Don't forget that the SH can be switched to suite the country where it is in use so by setting it to UK will disable ATIS and it is then legal for use in UK waters

Even if the HX 300 had the faciliity for VDES I would prefer to use a fixed radio for this purpose however even if the HX300 had the channels for VDES there is no easy way to interface such a radio to the data source. Much easier with some other portables which come with a speaker Mike jack socket. I wonder what the OP wants this facility for?

 

[ashtead]

Is it not the action of enabling ATIS which caused the issue? Is there a warning that by doing this it’s only reversible via a dealer? Personally I would suggest selling the unit in Netherlands . Why if it’s clear as to results of opting for ATIS is there an issue ? It’s frustrating but seems to have arisen as a result of user actions or have I misunderstood. My uk version is great BTW but I haven’t fiddled with it in like fashion

 

[syvictoria]

Thanks for all the replies to date.

The ATIS function can indeed be enabled/disabled by the user as/when required, but the programmed ATIS number cannot be removed without dealer intervention. The point is that the radio is of little - or arguably, no - use abroad with just two channels. Other radios are not restricted in this manner.

Re: VDES, I understand from previous posts on here that as of 2023, it is an offence to have a non compliant radio in Belgium and Germany, whilst in the Netherlands, the offence is transmitting not owning. It's therefore my opinion that SH shouldn't in 2022 have been actively advertising a model as suitable for use in the European inland waterways, knowing that it would require reprogramming less than a year later. I cannot believe that they weren't aware that other countries were implementing VDES sooner than the UK, and so the date they quoted in their response to me is rubbish.

I do appreciate that I would undoubtedly have been in a better position had I raised issues with SH at an earlier stage. However, the issues only came to light gradually over time, and the tipping point for me was the VDES situation, rather than the ATIS issues. The radio is still (now) under warranty and surely an expectation that a piece of electronic equipment should remain technically fit for purpose to at least the end of the standard warranty period shouldn't be unreasonable, should it?

 

[Alicatt]

I have 3 radios, 2 by SH a HX890E and a GX2400GPS and a Smirad R20. The HX890E can be reprogrammed with the dealer software which is available on the US SH/Yaesu website, the GX2400 needs to go to the dealer to be reprogrammed, I had this discussion with SH last year when the VDES regulations became mandatory in Belgium, still not mandatory in The Netherlands ... yet. SH won't let you reprogram the GX2400 but the HX890 is reprogrammed by myself. SH will give you the codes to reprogram the ATIS and MMSI HX890 and GX2400 by email gratis, I am awaiting the new MMSI and ATIS codes for my new boat and the Simrad R20 will be surplus.

Both the HX890 and the GX2400 can be set to 3 different regions via a combination button push at start up

The Simrad R20 needs a firmware update for VDES and that is free, however changing the ATIS and MMSI codes you have to send it back to a dealer or Simrad to have it done.

Also got an ancient Sailor VHF in the boat, it is original from when the boat was built in the late 1970s, still works well but it is illegal to have it onboard when I take the boat back to Belgium.

 

[syvictoria]

My fixed VHF is a SH GX1800GPS and that too apparently needs to go back to a dealer to be reprogrammed. As a 2019 vintage, I accept that, as frustrating and inconvenient as it is.

 

[Alicatt]

My fixed VHF is a SH GX1800GPS and that too apparently needs to go back to a dealer to be reprogrammed. As a 2019 vintage, I accept that, as frustrating and inconvenient as it is.

It was €35 to get the GX2400 reprogrammed, more than that it was the 2 hour drive to take the radio to the dealer.
Meanwhile the dealer I bought the radio from in the UK did not know anything about VDES as it was not on their horizon until I pointed it out to them.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It'd a 90 quid radio. Don't waste time on it, use it as is where it's useful, maybe until 2028, and get something else for day to day use....

Or eBay it.

 

[syvictoria]

It'd a 90 quid radio. Don't waste time on it, use it as is where it's useful, maybe until 2028, and get something else for day to day use....

Or eBay it.

That £90 (IIRC, it was actually closer to £110) is a day's wages to the average wo/man. Where do we draw the line? £150, £250? And why do we allow these companies to profit further from us by forking out £20-30 every time a tiny software tweak is required - literally a 5 minute job, I would imagine.

I have no use for the radio as is, so it will have to be eBay/here, and that (unhappily) with my ATIS number still programmed into the radio.

I think this is my sixth SH product. I won't be buying SH again...

 

[ashtead]

I am still puzzled as I had thought it was enabling ATIS which caused the issue as per post #1 which would seem to be a user choice ? Isn’t enabling ATIS the issue ? There must be many Dutch sailors who would welcome such a device if ATIS adds local value? I assume you programmed the ATIS number and the instructions stated it’s only reversible by a dealer? Is the issue the absence of any warning maybe in the SH instructions ?
The VDES issue seems not to impair usage though ?

 

[Alicatt]

ATIS being enabled restricts the power to low power mode and depending on which region you are in then the channel allocation may change. NL has extra channels for marina use which Belgium does not have, and Germany has a whole different set up.

VDES is trying to establish an international standard for highspeed data communications using two channels for that and removing them from the analogue voice communication allocation, so far I think that Belgium has been the only country to make it mandatory to have your radio compliant.

 

[syvictoria]

There must be many Dutch sailors who would welcome such a device if ATIS adds local value?

Not when ATIS is mandatory on the inland waterways and SH have opted to interpret the RAINWAT regs so severely as to limit the radio to just two channels when ATIS is enabled! That's of little/no use to anyone. Regretfully in 2022 I opted to keep the radio and only use it (incorrectly) with ATIS disabled if/when required. I wish that I'd returned the radio to the UK at that stage and insisted on a remedy/return, but sadly I didn't as it was both inconvenient at the time and I hadn't anticipated the double whammy of the later VDES issues!

Edited to add that the radio would be useful to someone in the UK, as the UK doesn't use ATIS and seemingly VDES will not be implemented here until 2028 (at the earliest, knowing the UK!). Unfortunately I personally have no use for a VHF radio in the UK.