wrr
Active member
Provided that there is a flat surface on the supporting brackets, I would consider using 3M Dual-lock, which is a bit like Velcro on steroids.
Table fixing ideas...
- Thread starter flaming
- Start date
j24jam
Active member
Magnets?
Mark-1
Well-known member
Do you have to retire every time it breaks?
It seems to me if you make it weak enough to fail when it gets a smack you're going to be retiring all the time, and if you're allowed to carry on racing when it fails there's nothing to stop you letting it snap off early in every race. Wheras if you make it super strong you're going to snap the table as you fear.
Who decides what your 'normal' table is, can you just tape a tiny table on and use a massive table when you go cruising?
Personally, I think the table *does* affect your performance and therefore does need to be reflected in the handicap. It's clearly in the way and it's clearly a distraction for you in the race and presumably forces you to retire sometimes. (Because if it doesn't you can legitimately make it so flimsy it always breaks shortly after your preparatory signal.)
It seems to me if you make it weak enough to fail when it gets a smack you're going to be retiring all the time, and if you're allowed to carry on racing when it fails there's nothing to stop you letting it snap off early in every race. Wheras if you make it super strong you're going to snap the table as you fear.
Who decides what your 'normal' table is, can you just tape a tiny table on and use a massive table when you go cruising?
Personally, I think the table *does* affect your performance and therefore does need to be reflected in the handicap. It's clearly in the way and it's clearly a distraction for you in the race and presumably forces you to retire sometimes. (Because if it doesn't you can legitimately make it so flimsy it always breaks shortly after your preparatory signal.)
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doug748
Well-known member
I think the industrial strength Velcro is worth a go, if you make a wood base for it, as you suggested, sheets could be used rather than strips. You may need to glue and screw it down to keep it fixed and have a palette knife around to actually separate it.
We have to have the original table in place to race one design, though it does weigh a ton - removing it would probably raise the waterline.
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We have to have the original table in place to race one design, though it does weigh a ton - removing it would probably raise the waterline.
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flaming
Well-known member
I like this idea for the "max strength" option....
flaming
Well-known member
No, you don't have to retire when it breaks.
The "normal" table has to be essentially what was available as an option from the factory when the boat was new. Which this was. If you change the interior from the standard then you should take pictures and tell the rating office what you've done, which they will then review and decide if your rating should change. They have confirmed that the table needs to be in place, but they are not interested in how it is fixed.
And yes, there is nothing stopping me from using this table in race mode, and then swapping out for a more substantial one when cruising...
I like the look of the Dual Lock stuff, will get some and see if the strength is going to do the job....
billskip
Well-known member
Cant you dismantle the table and take photos of the existing bracket ,because your photo just seems to show something wrapped in tape
flaming
Well-known member
The tape was there to protect the crew from the bracket after the table fell off, again....
All you need to know about the bracket is that the top surface is essentially a flat plane with 4 holes in. Regardless of the chosen solution, the plan is to fix a flat wooden block to this, probably ply, and then attach the table to that block. Either by epoxy or something more temporary....
Mark-1
Well-known member
So the obvious solution is to fix it in place with *really* flimsy sacrifical pins and in every race as soon as someone nudges it off stow it away to be 'fixed' later. Leave it stowed when you're cruising because it's still in the way but put decent fixings in when you're actually using the table.
The fact you're not already doing that makes me think there's a reason you can't.
billskip
Well-known member
Ok, your plan is what I was thinking, but is not clear in my mind the the method of more secure support to the bracket, without seeing the bracket.
dunedin
Well-known member
Yes, this or 2 inch wide industrial Velcro, in as many strips as can fit on the contact area. May struggle to remove onve fitted.
However, when in cruising mode if somebody leans very heavily on the very end, or tries to push themselves up with it, the whole lot could suddenly go. Huge leverage at the end, and if able to come free in extremis when sail handling, won’t handle a 15 stone person pushing down on the end.
Possibly need to bite the bullet and have a couple of extra through bolts in cruising usage, bolts removed (and taken ashore
)when racingdoug748
Well-known member
Shame the thing was not designed to stow at the deckhead.........Whatever you choose, Is there any scope for having the table in a "racing position" ie a couple of feet higher up (still usable as a table) ? Much better for lugging sails about as well.
Problem with a low table is people fall with their full weight at that height + the occasional ape that thinks it is ideal to sit on.
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Problem with a low table is people fall with their full weight at that height + the occasional ape that thinks it is ideal to sit on.
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Mark-1
Well-known member
Yes, this or 2 inch wide industrial Velcro, in as many strips as can fit on the contact area. May struggle to remove onve fitted.
However, when in cruising mode if somebody leans very heavily on the very end, or tries to push themselves up with it, the whole lot could suddenly go. Huge leverage at the end, and if able to come free in extremis when sail handling, won’t handle a 15 stone person pushing down on the end.
Possibly need to bite the bullet and have a couple of extra through bolts in cruising usage, bolts removed (and taken ashore
The irony is, in Cruising mode it *can* be removed and just fitted when required. It only has to be in place when racing. ...and even then, only until it breaks off.
dunedin
Well-known member
But it is essential that it can’t “break off” when being used in cruising mode, with lots of hot food on the table …. then in the floor. Otherwise Flaming’s cruising days may be sadly ended prematurely ! Hence why I would add solid bolts for that mode.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Agree. Beefy fixings for Cruising mode - but undo them and stow the table when not in use because it's still in the way. Sacrificial fixings for Racing, preferably so sacrificial it harmlessly breaks off in less than 4 minutes.
Unfortunately that's such an obvious solution there must be a reason why it's not a goer, although we don't know what it is yet.
flaming
Well-known member
I think the breaking off is being exaggerated... I don't want it to break, Ideally I want to bolt it in place and forget about it.
However, I fear making the attachment too strong lest I just transfer the failure to something harder to fix... There is, as others have pointed out, a lot of leverage. At an absolute minimum I think I will have to put a "DO NOT SIT" sign on the table....
And agree absolutely about the desirability of dropping hot food in my other half's lap... That would not go down well at all....
Hmmmmmm.
However, I fear making the attachment too strong lest I just transfer the failure to something harder to fix... There is, as others have pointed out, a lot of leverage. At an absolute minimum I think I will have to put a "DO NOT SIT" sign on the table....
And agree absolutely about the desirability of dropping hot food in my other half's lap... That would not go down well at all....
Hmmmmmm.
Boathook
Well-known member
Two tables as has been mentioned. A racing one and a solid cruising one. The racing one, bits of velcro to hold in place as mentioned until touched and a bullet proof cruising one.
I'm surprised that it isn't a problem for the other boats unless they are all different so it is the person doing the measuring being a bit pedantic.
I'm surprised that it isn't a problem for the other boats unless they are all different so it is the person doing the measuring being a bit pedantic.
Mark-1
Well-known member
I agree. It's like the table is solely there as an obstruction to make it slightly more frustrating and awkward to move through the boat, and get an handicap advantage accordingly. It would drive me mad.
"Yeah, we have to have a live Badger on board. It's not worth the handicap penalty to remove it. I suppose we do all get covered in badger poo and scratched a bit, but it's worth it."
Mind you, people sail some really boring dinghies to get an advantage in a handicap fleet so I guess it's just playing the game.
flaming
Well-known member
This is far too close to the truth to be funny.
flaming
Well-known member
Whilst our table was an option available from the factory, it does appear that nobody else ever ordered it.
The other table available was a much more substantial wooden affair.
However, if I wanted to go down that route, in order to qualify for "not altering the interior" and thus not attracting a rating penalty, I would have to buy and fit a table direct from the manufacturer, rather than making a similar substantial wooden table. Even if I went to a friendly sister boat and measured their table and recreated it as closely as possible. And since the boat is no longer in production that is expensive... So I don't really want to pay good money to fit a heavy table to what is primarily a race boat, especially when I have a perfectly serviceable "flat surface suitable for putting things on".
But anyway, some good ideas have been suggested, I will make a decision as to what I do next! Thanks all.
