small club racing yacht

[roblpm]

The Hanse 291 or equivalent (301 etc) models you mentioned in the past strike the right balance imo. Competitive, stiff and with pretty decent comfort. You’ll have to fly a proper kite but to be honest racing a heavy boat with an a-sail in a mixed fleet is a misery anyway. I’ve been there and learned the hard way.

Yes..... ok this is the thing. I need to go and look at some.

C'mon tell us the gory details......!!

The local racing in edinburgh is in a river, with bridges, tankers and rocks in the way! So A sails a mixed blessing I think. DDW is the usual thing!

 

[roblpm]

The Hanse 291 or equivalent (301 etc) models you mentioned in the past strike the right balance imo. Competitive, stiff and with pretty decent comfort. You’ll have to fly a proper kite but to be honest racing a heavy boat with an a-sail in a mixed fleet is a misery anyway. I’ve been there and learned the hard way.

4 301s for sale. .... I am in Edinburgh.

They are in:

Essex,
Cardiff,
Dorset,
Lincolshire!!

Actually I am going to London in a couple of weeks.

Not sure the blue hull helps the ageing process......!

 

[mrming]

On our first small racing yacht that we actually owned (a First 235), the previous owner had fitted a large a-sail and bowsprit. We were usually short crewed so the first season it was appealing to give the a-sail a go as it was so easy to handle. Out racing at the time was in a river / estuary here on the East coast. It’s tidal which means getting into the shallows when punching tide and staying in a relatively narrow channel when the tide is fair. The prevailing winds meant a lot of DDW running. With the a-sail, every other gybe carried us out into the foul (or out of the fair) tide, and as a result we spent a season gybing back and forth behind our competitors’ transoms, making exactly no ground despite our impressive speed through the water. That winter I bought a nice new sym kite and re-rigged all the gear for it. Results improved dramatically the following season.

I’ve also sailed an asymmetric J boat for several seasons in competitive events with lots of DDW boats. Unless it’s blowing cats off trees this is also a demoralising experience. There’s a reason you see lots of J/109s with conventional kites, for example.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The Hanse 291 or equivalent (301 etc) models you mentioned in the past strike the right balance imo. Competitive, stiff and with pretty decent comfort. You’ll have to fly a proper kite but to be honest racing a heavy boat with an a-sail in a mixed fleet is a misery anyway. I’ve been there and learned the hard way.

I think that is the nail squarely struck. Asymmetrics need a light displacement boat to achieve the necessary speed to make them work. Those same light displacement boats either need crew on the rail or a 24ft beam to standup to their rig upwind. As he won’t be getting any club racing with a multihull, it kind of rules it out. Theres a lot of monos out there all rigged for asymmetrics that cannot really justify it. We only just do, in lighter winds. Yesterday we had 11 knots, and could carry the apparent wind at 90 degrees at 140 true. In less than about 7knots, its barely worth tacking downwind for us.

 

[Channel Sailor]

I read the OP and have not read everything in between, but my suggestion would be Contessa 28 maybe. There is a one design class of these that races from Lymington. They seem to enjoy themselves.

 

[roblpm]

On our first small racing yacht that we actually owned (a First 235), the previous owner had fitted a large a-sail and bowsprit. We were usually short crewed so the first season it was appealing to give the a-sail a go as it was so easy to handle. Out racing at the time was in a river / estuary here on the East coast. It’s tidal which means getting into the shallows when punching tide and staying in a relatively narrow channel when the tide is fair. The prevailing winds meant a lot of DDW running. With the a-sail, every other gybe carried us out into the foul (or out of the fair) tide, and as a result we spent a season gybing back and forth behind our competitors’ transoms, making exactly no ground despite our impressive speed through the water. That winter I bought a nice new sym kite and re-rigged all the gear for it. Results improved dramatically the following season.

I’ve also sailed an asymmetric J boat for several seasons in competitive events with lots of DDW boats. Unless it’s blowing cats off trees this is also a demoralising experience. There’s a reason you see lots of J/109s with conventional kites, for example.

Yes the tide is a big factor here too...... Along with the other multiple obstacles! It's actually more like an obstacle course than a sailing race! Fun though!

 

[roblpm]

I read the OP and have not read everything in between, but my suggestion would be Contessa 28 maybe. There is a one design class of these that races from Lymington. They seem to enjoy themselves.

Yes great suggestion but they are a bit old. There is a third consideration really which is the occasional visits of non sailors for the weekend.... Hanse 301 a bit newer.

 

[bignick]

This has been for sale for a couple of years so maybe a good discount awaits on that price:
Mustang 30 For Sale, 9.00m, 1987

That’s Addict.
I think she used to be quite a quick boat.

 

[bignick]

Depending on budget available, a Dehler 29 might fit the bill.
Really nicely built and a great boat to sail - i used to race on my friend’s and we did ok.

 

[ridgy]

I read the OP and have not read everything in between, but my suggestion would be Contessa 28 maybe. There is a one design class of these that races from Lymington. They seem to enjoy themselves.

I have a friend with one that we race on occasion and while it's nice enough inside it's a pretty dull boat to sail, heavy lifeless helm and slow with a small cockpit that barely fits 3 if tacking.
The toilet arrangements make it strictly a couple's boat imho.

 

[LouisBrowne]

If you want a dual purpose boat on a reasonable budget I think the MGC27 would be perfect. I had one for four happy years of singlehanded sailing. For her size and age she is quite fast (for passage planning I assumed 6 knots), she’s thoroughly seaworthy (I did cruises from Poole to Normandy, Brittany, the West Country and south west Ireland), and she is very easy to manage in a marina, which is an important consideration when singlehanded. The self tacking jib is a boon and the small fore triangle means that the spinnaker is of an easy to manage size.
For a more racing option I agree with those who have suggested the J92s, a fast easily managed boat that sails to its rating and does not require a large crew to keep it upright.

 

[Channel Sailor]

I understood OP said solo or short handed (three in cockpit not needed), Bristol Channel (can cope with proper sea not just a chop, no slamming to stop you dead) and winter sailing (safe and snug). Also the keel shape might be useful for the occasional drying out againt a quay. Will heave to OK if you need to reef solo, Strip out an interior stuff you don’t need, then get it weighed. The handicap will most likely be very attractive. As for old, buy one cheap and replace everything old. New radial cut sails custom designed, all new instruments, new rigging, even a new mast, boom and pole. Strip off years of antifouling for a clean finish. Feathering prop maybe. Possible a new engine too. Then nothing would go wrong with it for 10 years at least. The hull I would guess will out live a couple more owners, oh and the keel is probably firmly in place. Look at the age of 32s and 26s racing. There must be something worth having with these Contessas to make them so popular at that age. Btw the way, I don’t own one. I have a tippy light yacht.

 

[bignick]

I understood OP said solo or short handed (three in cockpit not needed), Bristol Channel (can cope with proper sea not just a chop, no slamming to stop you dead) and winter sailing (safe and snug).

i think Rob is based in Scotland.
the 2014 OP was based in Bristol…
Rob’s requirements slightly different..

 

[roblpm]

i think Rob is based in Scotland.
the 2014 OP was based in Bristol…
Rob’s requirements slightly different..

Yes thread hijack by me..... ? Oops!

Then again someone has to post on here or the thing will die and we will be condemned to Facebook!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We thought about a Con32, our interior is not much different. In the end though, we'd have paid at least as much for a fairly shitty contessa or a 30ft tri. Good 32s go for enormous money. They’re not quite that good, for me. I’d want more bang for my 90 odd k for a good one. A good Dragonfly is 75k. Ish. Same offset for ones that need work.

 

[mrming]

We thought about a Con32, our interior is not much different. In the end though, we'd have paid at least as much for a fairly shitty contessa or a 30ft tri. Good 32s go for enormous money. They’re not quite that good, for me. I’d want more bang for my 90 odd k for a good one. A good Dragonfly is 75k. Ish. Same offset for ones that need work.

It looks to me like the market has softened a bit for Contessa 32s. It’s a slightly more nuanced situation than the average second hand / classic yacht because there are still new and nearly new boats in the mix, however.

When CO32 fever was at it’s peak (say 10ish years ago), there were attempts to “flip” older boats - e.g. refit and list them for prices north of £50-60k. Those boats sat on the market for a long time and presumably ended up selling for a lot less.

Today there are very expensive new or nearly new boats, and then (imo) the prices for used boats are now very much in line with those for a plastic classic of that size with a good reputation. Good condition means a fair, but not insane asking price around £20-35k, and the scruffy do-er uppers are worth £8-12k.

My amateur analysis on this is that some models of boat get into vogue as a true classic for whatever reason, and have a purple patch where prices rise. This naturally peters out once everyone of the generation who appreciate the boat either gets one or buys something else / gets too old. The She 36 is comparable at the moment (although there are far fewer about).

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Our neighbours recently sold their 32 for north of 90k. It was immaculate, mind.

 

[mrming]

Our neighbours recently sold their 32 for north of 90k. It was immaculate, mind.

Do you know what year the boat was by any chance? I would expect that it’s a relatively recent one, if not that’s a very nice price to get for it.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Late 90s. He’s an obsessive compulsive mind you, you could eat your dinner of the bilges, and he’d polish it again after.

 

[mrming]

Late 90s. He’s an obsessive compulsive mind you, you could eat your dinner of the bilges, and he’d polish it again after.

Makes sense then - I would consider that a newish boat in the grand scheme of things. ?