small club racing yacht

[underdog]

A solo effort

Racing last year : nothing in front!

 

[Birdseye]

On the handicap thing - the same principles apply. The boats that win on NHC in our fleets are usually also good IRC boats, well sailed. The handicap adjusts from race to race but over the course of a long series or season the good people still win. The handicap just makes it easier to get a better result the week after you've had a bad result.

It sounds like the OP may have healthier fleet sizes than we get locally. Quite often during the summer we'll only have 3 or 4 boats fighting it out in our class, so there is no mid-fleet where you can have a race within a race.

Our NHC fleet is 24 boats split into a fast fleet and a slow fleet. Gets more popular year by year unlike the IRC fleet which has just 11 this year.

Racing last year : nothing in front!

so whats the boat? credit for flying a synmetrical spinny single handed in a race. must be better set out than ours is - I dont even like to fly ours with just 3 crew.

Also if you get somehibng too slow where I am you will be racing on your own, even in the slow division. Not much fun coming in miles after everyone else, even if you then win! So maybe best to get something comparable to everyone else? What is the fleet??

couldnt agree more which is why I said mid fleet performance

 

[BlueSkyNick]

The PY was invented by a chap at our club, the original - like a big slide rule - hangs on the clubhouse wall.

Am I right in thinking that was Les Hudson, or at least he was involved anyway. He lived in The Look Out, the cottage with behind The Ship.

 

[TSB240]

Am I right in thinking that was Les Hudson, or at least he was involved anyway. He lived in The Look Out, the cottage with behind The Ship.

Thread drift Stanley Milledge.........gains the no 1 credit .

 

[Seajet]

Yes, ' Sinbad ' Milledge; his portrait hangs beside the Portsmouth Yardstick.

His chum Les Hudson had what was for years the largest boat in the club, the pretty 20' wooden yawl ' Hunters' Moon '.

 

[markhomer]

The mutts nuts

http://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/js-9000-easy-speedster


Always fancied one of these , could be raced 2 up and goes like a scalded cat , even solo if needed ,



Shouldnt have said. They are rare,and you might find one afor me !

 

[roblpm]

Depends on which J Boat to be honest - they're all different - the J/92 is very stiff, others not so much.

The 3200 / 3600 short handed are never going to beat a good crewed boat around the cans - that's just not what they're for.

Personally I think boats of 30 foot and above are too big to singlehand competitively in a club race against crewed boats.

The H Boat which has been suggested by lots of different people is ideal for the job. The OP seems (understandably) keen on an a-sail, but I honestly can't think of a small asymmetric powered boat that fits the bill.

The Corby 25 has a ridiculously high ballast ratio (52%) and could be an interesting choice if budget allows, but again it's not an a-sail boat.

Was just thinking about this again today, someone at our club has just bought a J92.

So my mind still on 32 ft boat that cruises, and races with a smaller number of crew than the 5-6 on my current boat. Newish design.

Im thinking 3 with an asymmetric. To race against fully crewed.

There must be demand for something like this as getting a decent crew organised is such a pain!!

 

[mrming]

Was just thinking about this again today, someone at our club has just bought a J92.

So my mind still on 32 ft boat that cruises, and races with a smaller number of crew than the 5-6 on my current boat. Newish design.

Im thinking 3 with an asymmetric. To race against fully crewed.

There must be demand for something like this as getting a decent crew organised is such a pain!!

A shade larger, but J/105? Stiff and an a-sail boat by design. Slightly "functional" interior but easier to maintain as a result.

 

[roblpm]

A shade larger, but J/105? Stiff and an a-sail boat by design. Slightly "functional" interior but easier to maintain as a result.

Yes good but a bit basic inside. What I need is:

An easy measurement of stiffness
A list of irc numbers
Price
Etc

Then I could make a spreadsheet and come out with the ideal boat.

All idle winter speculation obviously. I just bought new sails for my current boat so need to get 5 seasons out of them.

Next boat for my 50th birthday I think in 4 and a half years. I think most of the enjoyment in owning things is the research into what to get. My current boat was a perfect first boat!

 

[mrming]

Ballast / displacement ratio is a good place to start (over 40 is stiff), then if the SA/D is c. 20 or above it's racy but could be reefed down for cruising.

My little boat is pretty sporty with full sail up, but a pussycat with a reef in the main and a blade jib.

IRC numbers for most boats can be found with a bit of Googling.

Agreed that half the fun is in the research - our boat won't be getting upgraded for at least the same number of years but it's entertaining to look at the options.

 

[roblpm]

Ballast / displacement ratio is a good place to start (over 40 is stiff), then if the SA/D is c. 20 or above it's racy but could be reefed down for cruising.

My little boat is pretty sporty with full sail up, but a pussycat with a reef in the main and a blade jib.

IRC numbers for most boats can be found with a bit of Googling.

Agreed that half the fun is in the research - our boat won't be getting upgraded for at least the same number of years but it's entertaining to look at the options.

Hmmm I know I can look up the ballast ratio but I know enough physics to know that it has to do with righting moments and things! My boat has most the ballast in the bottom of the boat and a lifting keel so is quite tender. Im sure if it was 6 feet down in a bulb it would be a different kettle of fish. (Like the Corby 29 next to me in the boat park). Also affected by form stability. So my original idea was sunfast 3200 but then everyone told me no cans racing which in practice is probably the greatest use of the boat.

So I need a measurement of when force a is applied at some point up the mast the boat heels by x amount! Obviously not available I don't think!

 

[Spice Cat]

Trimarans are excellent for single handing. I'm fortunate in that my club has mixed multi / mono races, not all do that. One keen racer who was always single handed at our club had an Achilles 24. Again you need a club / handicap system where you are not at a disadvantaged if you don't use a spinnaker.

 

[flaming]

Interesting question.

If you really want to sail shorthanded against fully crewed boats, then you're always going to suffer. When I was in the J105 fleet (and it actually got OD starts in the Solent) there was one boat which always sailed doublehanded. They were probably the best sailors in the fleet, both worked as superyacht captains, but they just couldn't match the rest of the fleet for speed upwind, and sail handling downwind. They did used to do OK on the RTI though.

There is a reason that all boats designed for shorthanded sailing offshore (Sunfasts, JPK, Pogo, Class 40, Mini etc) are all fat porkers. That goes some way to making up for the lack of crew weight, with form stability. However, there's also a reason that the best round the cans boats are not fat porkers. Even the likes of the Kerr 40 are actually very narrow on the waterline. For ww/lw racing narrow is best. It's only on a reach where all that form stability is preferable to the drag.

So - either go for a boat designed for doublehanding and accept that a ww/lw course is not going to work for you, or go for something more conventional and have a bit more of a chance on that ww/lw course.

My pick for the latter would be the J100. Drop dead gorgeous boat, available with a self tacker if you really want, and retrofit a small deck mounted bowsprit for a larger A-Sail if you feel you want more horsepower.

 

[Lucky Duck]

So I need a measurement of when force a is applied at some point up the mast the boat heels by x amount! Obviously not available I don't think!

Graphs showing the righting moment for each degree of heel are sometimes included in boat reviews and occasionally in manufacturer's literature.

Not sure if there is a central resource for all of them though.

 

[roblpm]

Interesting question.

If you really want to sail shorthanded against fully crewed boats, then you're always going to suffer. When I was in the J105 fleet (and it actually got OD starts in the Solent) there was one boat which always sailed doublehanded. They were probably the best sailors in the fleet, both worked as superyacht captains, but they just couldn't match the rest of the fleet for speed upwind, and sail handling downwind. They did used to do OK on the RTI though.

There is a reason that all boats designed for shorthanded sailing offshore (Sunfasts, JPK, Pogo, Class 40, Mini etc) are all fat porkers. That goes some way to making up for the lack of crew weight, with form stability. However, there's also a reason that the best round the cans boats are not fat porkers. Even the likes of the Kerr 40 are actually very narrow on the waterline. For ww/lw racing narrow is best. It's only on a reach where all that form stability is preferable to the drag.

So - either go for a boat designed for doublehanding and accept that a ww/lw course is not going to work for you, or go for something more conventional and have a bit more of a chance on that ww/lw course.

My pick for the latter would be the J100. Drop dead gorgeous boat, available with a self tacker if you really want, and retrofit a small deck mounted bowsprit for a larger A-Sail if you feel you want more horsepower.

Flaming, thanks for that! I obviously need 3 (or more) Boats!!

a) Round the cans racer - not too big to keep marina and sail fees down.
b) Weekend/week cruising boat for Scotland.
c) Offshore shorthanded boat for (fantasy) RORC etc
d) Huge AWB (preferably cat) for the offchance that my wife and kids want to come sailing somewhere hot - and this will do for the tradewinds circumnavigation
e) Offshore aluminium 45 footer for (fantasy) arctic and circumnavigation round the bottom.

That probably covers it! And you are telling me there isn't one boat that will do all this??!! I have a non glamourous version of a and b to keep me happy for the nmext 5 years,

then.........................

 

[Birdseye]

Flaming, thanks for that! I obviously need 3 (or more) Boats!!

a) Round the cans racer - not too big to keep marina and sail fees down.
b) Weekend/week cruising boat for Scotland.
c) Offshore shorthanded boat for (fantasy) RORC etc
d) Huge AWB (preferably cat) for the offchance that my wife and kids want to come sailing somewhere hot - and this will do for the tradewinds circumnavigation
e) Offshore aluminium 45 footer for (fantasy) arctic and circumnavigation round the bottom.

That probably covers it! And you are telling me there isn't one boat that will do all this??!! I have a non glamourous version of a and b to keep me happy for the nmext 5 years,

then.........................

a to d - maybe. But e)? Why would you want to go to the arctic in a boat made of one of the best possible heat transmitting materials known. For that matter, even after MMGW, why would you want to go to the arctic? Its Cold.

 

[roblpm]

a to d - maybe. But e)? Why would you want to go to the arctic in a boat made of one of the best possible heat transmitting materials known. For that matter, even after MMGW, why would you want to go to the arctic? Its Cold.

View attachment 47636

This would do for me

http://www.sail-world.com/UK/Garcia-Yachts-Exploration-45---Jimmy-Cornells-newest-adventure/125469

Insulated!!

I have a strange suspicion of hot places. Don't like the heat and too many people having fun!!

I already moved from London to Scotland. The weather is fine though the short days do my head in. So the Arctic in the summer would be fine. Antarctic in their summer.

 

[SimbaDog]

Corby 25? Mate has a nice one surplus to requirements :encouragement:

 

[roblpm]

Flaming, thanks for that! I obviously need 3 (or more) Boats!!

a) Round the cans racer - not too big to keep marina and sail fees down.
b) Weekend/week cruising boat for Scotland.
c) Offshore shorthanded boat for (fantasy) RORC etc
d) Huge AWB (preferably cat) for the offchance that my wife and kids want to come sailing somewhere hot - and this will do for the tradewinds circumnavigation
e) Offshore aluminium 45 footer for (fantasy) arctic and circumnavigation round the bottom.

That probably covers it! And you are telling me there isn't one boat that will do all this??!! I have a non glamourous version of a and b to keep me happy for the nmext 5 years,

then.........................

OK in the best tradition of YBW Zombie threads I was just searching and found this!!! Ahahahahha! 2014 feels like a lifetime away...........

Well I now have no boat post divorce!

But if the Pandemic/Brexit +25% premium starts going down I may now be in a position to buy....... Otherwise I am going to be an even more crap sailor than I was before...... I need practice. And I find crewing on other people's boats strangely disatisfying.......

So Criteria is my A & B!!

MGC27
Hanse 292/292/301

Or go one size bigger, as 1 metres on the mooring costs are zero and in a marina just a mere £340 a year more. Also better for cruising the Clyde and Inner and Outer Hebrides and staying for the weekend.

However prices of Elan 333, Maxi 1000 etc are bonkers compared to a few years ago!

Sunfast 32i? Compromise? Hanse 301 is 2800kg, Sunfast 32i is 4190Kg, a lot more boat!

Jeanneau Sun Fast 32i for sale UK, Jeanneau boats for sale, Jeanneau used boat sales, Jeanneau Sailing Yachts For Sale Jeanneau Sun Fast 32i (sold) - Apollo Duck

£28k ish, a lot cheaper than the slight;y larger classics?

 

[ProMariner]

Little left field, but a Rustler 33 with an A sail tacked off the stem would make a lovely gentleman's day racer, you could fit a self tacking track, but it's not the hardest job to tack a blade jib anyway.

This guy literally wrote the book on singlehanded round the cans racing, might give you some thoughts:

SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf