small club racing yacht

[mrming]

Maybe slow, but this year's Round the Island Race had a Folkboat winning the Gold Roman Bowl, and a Contessa26 third !

The RTIR isn't representative of club racing performance. The particular speed / handicap combination of the Folkboat / C26 suits that race as you get maximum benefit from the tide.

Having said that I have raced around the cans against a very well set up Folkboat and they are very competitive. You need to beat one by a long way in my little 23 footer.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

The RTIR isn't representative of club racing performance. The particular speed / handicap combination of the Folkboat / C26 suits that race as you get maximum benefit from the tide.

Fully agree, I was really pointing out that they might be slow but still a lot of fun for not too much money. There is a large active fleet of FB's down here in the Western Solent and they always have very close competitive racing between them.

 

[TSB240]

Have a look Here for some ideas of what is currently competitive.

http://offshoresolo.com/

Seems a Hanse 291 has been doing pretty well. I virtually sail our 301 single handed most of the time! The same Hull design was based on the Aphrodite a Carl Beyer design purchased outright by Hanse in 93 which has a good racing heritage.

 

[Seajet]

H-Boat, Marieholm International Folkboat ( IF-Boat ), Aphrodite 101, UFO 27 -31, S & S 34, She 31, Hustler 25 maybe ? Lots of good boats for outside the Solent if you can put up with a fin / deep keel.

Or treat yourself - if not your wallet - to a She 36

 

[bitbaltic]

Notice the baby Hanse (292/301) has been mentioned a few times so thought I'd chip in. We sail a 301 out of Cardiff Bay. We do not race her but she is set up for fast, short handed family cruising with laminate sails, two speed harken self-tailing winches coach roof and primary, all lines led back and all in Dyneema, so she is probably as close to being a racing spec 301 as you will get without going as far as the real racing boats in the class eg White Mischief. Our riggers' opinion (he races a 29ft Dehler) is that she would be very hard to beat in local club racing but as I say I have not tested his opinion.

She will crack along at six knots in almost any sort of wind and pretty much most points of sail. However I would have reservations about her being the sort of boat the OP is looking for. In stronger breezes the main can overpower the headsail quite quickly and the boat needs to be reefed much like changing gears on a car. She is the wing keeled boat and this coupled to the fact that the design is not really about form stability can make her tender. Still she is safe and able but I am not sure I would care to single hand her for long in 30 knots. At this point (for us) she will need to be on her third reef and still be very lively to helm. An older IOR might be more encouraging at this point as the OP says although as I say my opinion is that of a family cruiser and not a racer.

If I were picking one up for racing I think I would look for the fin keeled boat though there are less of those around. Anyhow if the OP finds himself considering the Hanse he is welcome to come and have a sail on ours as an example of what he might want to do with one.

Cheers

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

I think this boat has been designed to satisfy your brief

Stiff, fast and relatively easy to sail singlehanded without the need to really use the kite if shorthanded

Are you feeling loaded?

http://www.cornishcrabbers.co.uk/index.cfm/boat/Mystery.Link30

At the lower budget end I'd buy an H boat.

 

[Lakesailor]

Fully agree, I was really pointing out that they might be slow but still a lot of fun for not too much money. There is a large active fleet of FB's down here in the Western Solent and they always have very close competitive racing between them.

I have a very good friend who races there. He owns the boat, but they make him sit on the front bit!

Luckily that means he wasn't responsible for this very close racing

 

[roblpm]

Notice the baby Hanse (292/301) has been mentioned a few times so thought I'd chip in. We sail a 301 out of Cardiff Bay. We do not race her but she is set up for fast, short handed family cruising with laminate sails, two speed harken self-tailing winches coach roof and primary, all lines led back and all in Dyneema, so she is probably as close to being a racing spec 301 as you will get without going as far as the real racing boats in the class eg White Mischief. Our riggers' opinion (he races a 29ft Dehler) is that she would be very hard to beat in local club racing but as I say I have not tested his opinion.

She will crack along at six knots in almost any sort of wind and pretty much most points of sail. However I would have reservations about her being the sort of boat the OP is looking for. In stronger breezes the main can overpower the headsail quite quickly and the boat needs to be reefed much like changing gears on a car. She is the wing keeled boat and this coupled to the fact that the design is not really about form stability can make her tender. Still she is safe and able but I am not sure I would care to single hand her for long in 30 knots. At this point (for us) she will need to be on her third reef and still be very lively to helm. An older IOR might be more encouraging at this point as the OP says although as I say my opinion is that of a family cruiser and not a racer.

If I were picking one up for racing I think I would look for the fin keeled boat though there are less of those around. Anyhow if the OP finds himself considering the Hanse he is welcome to come and have a sail on ours as an example of what he might want to do with one.

Cheers

Someone more brainy than me can comment on the form stability issue. Is it not why modern shorthanded biats like the sunfast 3200 and 3600 have wide arses and chines?? So would this help singlehanding round the cans?

 

[mrming]

Someone more brainy than me can comment on the form stability issue. Is it not why modern shorthanded biats like the sunfast 3200 and 3600 have wide arses and chines?? So would this help singlehanding round the cans?

Those boats aren't great around the cans. The J boats which are skinny and have a big bulb on the keel eat them for breakfast.

A big stable surfy platform like the 3200 / 3600 is better for longer offshore or passage races where there's a chance of disappearing off on a long downwind leg. The form stability translates into reaching power. A crewed up J boat doesn't need that stability and with less wetted area goes better as a result.

Handicapping systems like IRC also heavily penalise anything that can plane. Not such a big issue for the Sunfasts, but a big problem for a flyer like the Pogo 30 which would otherwise be a really fun race boat.

 

[E39mad]

MGC 27 is a lovely balanced boat for a fin keeler.

Self tacking headsail on most is also ideal - just need to rig an asymetric

 

[Birdseye]

Have a look Here for some ideas of what is currently competitive.

http://offshoresolo.com/

Seems a Hanse 291 has been doing pretty well. I virtually sail our 301 single handed most of the time! The same Hull design was based on the Aphrodite a Carl Beyer design purchased outright by Hanse in 93 which has a good racing heritage.

Thought this link might give the answer and then I looked at some results. Guys sailing First 40.7 single handed! J122 Maxi 1100. On that basis I might as well keep my current Starlight 35! Except that its too big and not exactly laid out for single handing even if its better than many.

Someone suggested Trapper 28, Nicholson 30 and Impala. As it happens we have all of those boats in our fleet and I wouldnt have thought anyn of them were that good for single handing either.

Way I'm thinking, single handing means:

1/ decent directional stability - a big dinghy is no real use. I had a Hunter 26 when I first started out and whilst it was fun to sail it tied you to the tiller.
2/ self tacking jib
3/ asymetric on a pole because single handing a symetrical spinny is not on at my skill level. And the self tacking means that I will need extra power from maybe 40deg off windto 120 deg.
4/ all ropes led aft and a cockpit laid out for single handing.

maybe something like the hunter 30 fin keel? I think it has a slightly extended Impala hull and is built as self tacking. A prong could be added. J88?

 

[roblpm]

Those boats aren't great around the cans. The J boats which are skinny and have a big bulb on the keel eat them for breakfast.

A big stable surfy platform like the 3200 / 3600 is better for longer offshore or passage races where there's a chance of disappearing off on a long downwind leg. The form stability translates into reaching power. A crewed up J boat doesn't need that stability and with less wetted area goes better as a result.

Handicapping systems like IRC also heavily penalise anything that can plane. Not such a big issue for the Sunfasts, but a big problem for a flyer like the Pogo 30 which would otherwise be a really fun race boat.

Ok good stuff. But what if single handed racing against crewed boats? That was the original question. What happens to the j without anyone on the rail??

 

[mrming]

Ok good stuff. But what if single handed racing against crewed boats? That was the original question. What happens to the j without anyone on the rail??

Depends on which J Boat to be honest - they're all different - the J/92 is very stiff, others not so much.

The 3200 / 3600 short handed are never going to beat a good crewed boat around the cans - that's just not what they're for.

Personally I think boats of 30 foot and above are too big to singlehand competitively in a club race against crewed boats.

The H Boat which has been suggested by lots of different people is ideal for the job. The OP seems (understandably) keen on an a-sail, but I honestly can't think of a small asymmetric powered boat that fits the bill.

The Corby 25 has a ridiculously high ballast ratio (52%) and could be an interesting choice if budget allows, but again it's not an a-sail boat.

 

[michael_w]

Bit above the budget but a J105 is a good short handed boat. Quick and as stiff as a church.

Another one could be a Beneteau Figaro 1.

 

[Aardee]

Bit above the budget but a J105 is a good short handed boat. Quick and as stiff as a church.

Another one could be a Beneteau Figaro 1.

I single-hand a Gibsea 90 Plus, which is also a Figaro-class boat. Great fun, but is a bit "big-dinghy-ish".

 

[Birdseye]

Thanks for the comments but I think some people are forgetting the NHC/PY bit. Provided the boat is mid fleet on the water, the handical takes care of it not being the inherently fastest boat there. I race for fun so my question isnt about what is the fastest IRC boat that I can single hand, its about what is the best small boat for single handing under a performance based handicap system.

My experience has been that under NHC or PY, the most fun is had on an average boat rather than having the fastest in the fleet or the one that barely makes the time limit each race. In the middle of the fleet there are lots of boats around you to have a race within a race.

 

[Seajet]

birdseye,

too true, and nice to hear from someone with the right spirit, not just after the latest trendy stripes and sunglasses !

The PY was invented by a chap at our club, the original - like a big slide rule - hangs on the clubhouse wall.

However it's not infallible as it depends on reported race results, so with a less commonly raced boat one might find a ' bandit ' capable of knobbling the pointy stripey jobs...

No, I don't have an Anderson 22 in mind - though one could do a lot worse - and if I mentioned the PY Bandit I'm thinking of here she might get re-rated, feel free to PM me

Andy

 

[mrming]

On the handicap thing - the same principles apply. The boats that win on NHC in our fleets are usually also good IRC boats, well sailed. The handicap adjusts from race to race but over the course of a long series or season the good people still win. The handicap just makes it easier to get a better result the week after you've had a bad result.

It sounds like the OP may have healthier fleet sizes than we get locally. Quite often during the summer we'll only have 3 or 4 boats fighting it out in our class, so there is no mid-fleet where you can have a race within a race.

 

[roblpm]

Thanks for the comments but I think some people are forgetting the NHC/PY bit. Provided the boat is mid fleet on the water, the handical takes care of it not being the inherently fastest boat there. I race for fun so my question isnt about what is the fastest IRC boat that I can single hand, its about what is the best small boat for single handing under a performance based handicap system.

My experience has been that under NHC or PY, the most fun is had on an average boat rather than having the fastest in the fleet or the one that barely makes the time limit each race. In the middle of the fleet there are lots of boats around you to have a race within a race.

Also if you get somehibng too slow where I am you will be racing on your own, even in the slow division. Not much fun coming in miles after everyone else, even if you then win! So maybe best to get something comparable to everyone else? What is the fleet??

 

[mrming]

What is the fleet??

Best question asked so far!