Second boat sunk by Orcas

[MisterBaxter]

Who is talking about culling 50 orca other than you?

A few people - see below...

This is so boring and predictable that the obvious solution put forward by a few of us 3 years or more ago is still not being demanded by sailors. Sailors are simply too sentimental to go on the oceans now and those getting sunk frankly deserve it to save the nice smiley fishes.

A simple cull of the pod would have instantly solved the problem - we all knew this then but won’t go near the same solution that would have been applied to a rogue elephant or tiger.

I do not advocate a cruel end for these rogue pests. But they are a threat to humans. I've sailed that area a lot. As are many people right now. They are potential killers on the loose and I most certainly put the welfare of my crews far far higher than a bunch of angry protein. Get rid. In my opinion.

I think someone needs to come up with a viable deterrent that dissuades the Orca behaviour without doing long term harm to the animals. If things don't change I fear that particular pod may end up having to be euthanised . If only they would be happy to play with a quickly deployed beach ball in lieu of your rudder.

 

[capnsensible]

As many as it takes to make those waters safe for humans.

トラ トラ トラ

 

[doug748]

As many as it takes to make those waters safe for humans.
トラ トラ トラ

Indeed, the problem with pressure groups is that when the battle is won they have nothing else to do and start casting about for new crusades. A well documented phenomenon. Thus we have things like pigeons protected when they should be culled in big numbers and to a lesser extent gulls. Not to mention the loony calls to re-introduce species to places where our forefathers toiled for centuries to get rid of them.
Some of these ecological pressure groups might be better classed by the sociologist as religious cults, the worship of animals has a long and interesting history.

In this case you would not have to take many whales just the problem ones, same with our friends the gulls. A few licences for the whaling nations would put things right and secure a useful food source.
Politicians have their minds elsewhere so I doubt we can expect help there, nor any sensible advice.

.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

A few people - see below...

The pods reported in this area are less than ten. Nobody has used 50 but you!

 

[Stemar]

In this case you would not have to take many whales just the problem ones, same with our friends the gulls. A few licences for the whaling nations would put things right and secure a useful food source.

The troublemakers are far too few in number to make a food source. How many would it be? A few members of one pod? At worst, one whole pod. I wouldn't want to open the commercial whaling can of worms for that.

It could be done, and orcas are smart enough that they'd soon learn that boats are not suitable toys. I'd far rather find a non-lethal way to do it, but I value human lives over orcas. Sure, no one has died yet, but any sinking is putting lives at risk.

I wonder if a taser would work under water?

 

[MisterBaxter]

The pods reported in this area are less than ten. Nobody has used 50 but you!

Again, see below...

It's a tough call. There can be up to 50 Orca's in a pod.

However, it's not about the numbers. I wouldn't want to see any orcas killed to reduce the tiny risk of boat attacks. I have no idea how many boat trips are made off the Atlantic coast of Spain and Portugal each year but for comparison there are a million boats and water craft in the UK, so let's say for the sake of argument that a million trips are made annually by leisure and fishing boats. That would put the annual risk of sinking by orca at 1/500,000. The incidence of death by orca remains zero to date. I just don't see it as significant in risk assessment terms, if you step away from the emotional appeal of macho action.
I don't need the world to be made entirely safe and sterile for me. I don't want the waves to be ironed out, I don't want the winds capped at F4, I don't need all the gulls to be shot in case they crap on my head. I don't need every cliff path to have a tarmac surface and a handrail, I don't need swimming to be banned in areas where no lifeguard is on duty. I certainly don't need orcas to be killed to remove a minuscule risk that they might knock my rudder off.

 

[capnsensible]

Indeed, the problem with pressure groups is that when the battle is won they have nothing else to do and start casting about for new crusades. A well documented phenomenon. Thus we have things like pigeons protected when they should be culled in big numbers and to a lesser extent gulls. Not to mention the loony calls to re-introduce species to places where our forefathers toiled for centuries to get rid of them.
Some of these ecological pressure groups might be better classed by the sociologist as religious cults, the worship of animals has a long and interesting history.

In this case you would not have to take many whales just the problem ones, same with our friends the gulls. A few licences for the whaling nations would put things right and secure a useful food source.
Politicians have their minds elsewhere so I doubt we can expect help there, nor any sensible advice.

.

Spot on.

 

[Mister E]

A Cull is not going to happen. The best that the people in the area can hope for is Tagging.
The question is why should the wildlife protection groups do so?

I was accepting of some sort of resolution of this, that was until the "eco loon" comment.
The charm offensive is lost with comments like that.

 

[capnsensible]

A Cull is not going to happen. The best that the people in the area can hope for is Tagging.
The question is why should the wildlife protection groups do so?

I was accepting of some sort of resolution of this, that was until the "eco loon" comment.
The charm offensive is lost with comments like that.

Subjective.

 

[Mister E]

What is subjective?

 

[capnsensible]

What is subjective?

existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective).
pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual:a subjective evaluation.
placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.

 

[sailaboutvic]

A Cull is not going to happen.

If you say so then it must be right .
What's worst ,culling Human or people doing all sorted of injuries and leaving them in pain to die .

 

[Daydream believer]

To date two boats have sunk and nobody has died.

With all due respect , I find nothing in your post to give me confidence
What about the damaged rudders & the stress to the crews? What about the work involved in rescuing boats that have been attacked.? The fact that 2 HAVE been sunk demonstrates the seriousness of the problem. Does that not matter?
As for quoting other dangers to sailors, I think that is an irrelevance. How about jumping in front of a train? That kills 99.999% of all participants That being said, I cannot quote from experience-- fortunately

How do you know that "dangle the spinnaker pole off the side and give it a good clanging with a hammer. " will actually work, or will not result in a more dangerous response?
Presumably you have evidence to the contrary. ( whales, not trains)

 

[Graham376]

Being based in the area where attacks have taken place, it really amuses me to read some of the replies. What for instance would tagging achieve apart from being able to identify a culprit? It's a vast sea area and they move so fast with incredible hearing to detect targets at large distances, it would be impossible in most cases to alter course and avoid them even if the tags transmitted ais position.

I would be against culling an entire pod but not individuals, unfortunately we don't have the means to do it. Fireworks are said to chase them away but illegal and, if in sight of land, the cloud of smoke followed by a bang, would almost certainly attract attention. Hopefully, the pingers (also illegal) will work but not detectable by authorities.

Once a few more claims are submitted, I suspect insurers will want to charge an excess or, maybe even exclude damage caused by Orcas when sailing the area.

 

[Daydream believer]

A friend of mine, intending to head for the 2023 ARC, has said that he has traced a source of shock grenades, that one drops in the water & they go off with a bang, below the surface. I think that he quoted something like £ 80 each. I am not entirely sure of the accuracy of this. Of course the legality of actually having such a thing aboard has to be considered. But one can understand him wanting to give it a try, if threatened.
One can argue the rights & wrongs all day, but I would support his efforts, if it works. A whale with sore hearing for a day beats a knackered rudder every time.

 

[doug748]

A friend of mine, intending to head for the 2023 ARC, has said that he has traced a source of shock grenades, that one drops in the water & they go off with a bang, below the surface. I think that he quoted something like £ 80 each. I am not entirely sure of the accuracy of this. Of course the legality of actually having such a thing aboard has to be considered. But one can understand him wanting to give it a try, if threatened.
One can argue the rights & wrongs all day, but I would support his efforts, if it works. A whale with sore hearing for a day beats a knackered rudder every time.

Too expensive I think.

When this business started, in an early thread, someone said that large bangers were used in paintballing parks and gave a company address. These are reasonably cheap so you may be able to lob a few over with whales in the offing.
However, I got in touch with the company but they would not supply to a private individual so I was unable to test the things in water. Examples on YouTube seem to suggest that there is a good chance they would work.

.

 

[25931]

Indeed, the problem with pressure groups is that when the battle is won they have nothing else to do and start casting about for new crusades. A well documented phenomenon. Thus we have things like pigeons protected when they should be culled in big numbers and to a lesser extent gulls. Not to mention the loony calls to re-introduce species to places where our forefathers toiled for centuries to get rid of them.
Some of these ecological pressure groups might be better classed by the sociologist as religious cults, the worship of animals has a long and interesting history.

In this case you would not have to take many whales just the problem ones, same with our friends the gulls. A few licences for the whaling nations would put things right and secure a useful food source.
Politicians have their minds elsewhere so I doubt we can expect help there, nor any sensible advice.

.

It is interesting that people who wish to kill call them whales instead of dolphins.

 

[KevinV]

A friend of mine, intending to head for the 2023 ARC, has said that he has traced a source of shock grenades, that one drops in the water & they go off with a bang, below the surface. I think that he quoted something like £ 80 each. I am not entirely sure of the accuracy of this. Of course the legality of actually having such a thing aboard has to be considered. But one can understand him wanting to give it a try, if threatened.
One can argue the rights & wrongs all day, but I would support his efforts, if it works. A whale with sore hearing for a day beats a knackered rudder every time.

Yeah, shock grenades - right next to a boat with multiple through-hulls. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[doug748]

It is interesting that people who wish to kill call them whales instead of dolphins.

To be fair their most ardent admirers are not sure:

"Orcas (also known as killer whales) are marine mammals.
They belong to the sub-order of toothed whales (known as odontocetes) but are also the largest member of the dolphin family."

.....................WDC, Whale and Dolphin Conservation is the leading charity dedicated to the protection of whales and dolphins.

.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Being based in the area where attacks have taken place, it really amuses me to read some of the replies. What for instance would tagging achieve apart from being able to identify a culprit? It's a vast sea area and they move so fast

Tagging would achieve quite a lot to some sailors,
It help with planning.
Live data
Pods are located at X and you happen to be 100 miles south of where you are on the day and your intentions is to sail North you know the risk are low .
On the other hand if you was intended to sail towards them you know the risk is much higher .It also help local sailors , a pod near by will help to decide if to enter out or not.
Imagine having no weather forecaster everything you venture out on a long trip