sailing to france question

[westernman]

If you get caught doing more than 200km/h in France the police have been known to confiscate the car. No idea under what law etc. Nor whether the rightful owner ever got it back again. I suspect that the more valuable the car, the more likely for it to be confiscated.

Do not speed in France - there are loads of mobile speed checks here now. And they will chase after foreign registered vehicles as they can't automatically send the bill by post. The situation has changed radically in the last 5-7 years.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, there is a news item today about an English guy who has had his Ferrari confiscated for alledgedly racing a Porsche along an Autoroute in Normandy.

 

[ostell]

Do not speed in France - there are loads of mobile speed checks here now. And they will chase after foreign registered vehicles as they can't automatically send the bill by post. The situation has changed radically in the last 5-7 years.

There are more and more fixed radar checks by the side of the road (but you are warned well in advance so no excuse) and I believe that there is now an agreement between France and the UK that allows them to claim fines from foreign cars.

 

[reginaldon]

Well maybe but they've got to write something on the receipt.



Well this is new information. The French Police can issue on the spot fines at will without any offence having been committed? What if people don't have the cash? Are there people in prison at the whim of local plod?

If this were true, and a rozzer wanted to fine you the SSR wouldn't help - wouldn't he just make up another reason to fine you?

I was walking by a foreign TIR down here, who had previously been pulled by the police for some offence or other, I said, "Got problems?", the driver commented, "Not really , your police are fine."

 

[sighmoon]

Caught speeding just outside Alencon. Pleaded no money. Passport and licence confiscated and given directions to the hole in the wall. 900 francs later, documents returned (with receipt) and wished bon voyage!

In contrast, I got caught speeding in Jordan. Pleaded no cash (cash machines rare there). He said "The Fine is 20 JD. When you get to cash machine, you pay 10 JD to your daughter, and 10JD to your son. Have a nice day."

Waaayyy off topic, I know

 

[Tranona]

In contrast, I got caught speeding in Jordan. Pleaded no cash (cash machines rare there). He said "The Fine is 20 JD. When you get to cash machine, you pay 10 JD to your daughter, and 10JD to your son. Have a nice day."

Waaayyy off topic, I know

Not at all! Another example of officials behaving in their own way, rather than in the way some posters here think they ought to!

Having travelled extensively around the world for the last 40 years, I have experienced all kinds of "official" behaviour, much of it quite different from the way officials behave in the UK. As many pleasant surprises as negative experiences.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

In contrast, I got caught speeding in Jordan. Pleaded no cash (cash machines rare there). He said "The Fine is 20 JD. When you get to cash machine, you pay 10 JD to your daughter, and 10JD to your son. Have a nice day."

Way off topic but my experiences of foreign officialdom have been 100pc positive as well.

As a teenager I was a bit pissed in Cherbourg. I wasn't causing any trouble but I was long separated from my mates and it was long past time for me to be in my bunkd. If they'd wanted to make trouble they could have put me in the cells I'm sure. Instead they walked with me to the marina and watched me go to the boat. They were friendly and polite and they had every right not to be.

A couple of times friends have lost passports in France. Again, no drama at all. We'd assumed a visit to the British Embassy would be required. Instead both French and British Customs just asked a few friendly questions and let us on the Ferry/Tunnel. Same when a friend's Passport expired in Greece (both UK and Greek end and that was by plane).

Motorcycle holidays in Europe have been the same. We got pulled on the way back from the Alps. After 3000+ miles of terrific twisties all our rear tyres were a well the wrong side of iffy. I think they were entitled to throw the book at us. Instead there was a pidgin French chat about our holiday and a cheerful hand gesture as we left that indicated "ride careful on your bald tyres." A similar exchange happened a couple of years before in the Ardennes.

We stopped by the side of the road in the Spain side of the Pyrenees and a Police car stopped and a rozzer started looking up and down the bikes. I took a photo. They clearly didn't like this and came over to us. Again we gave big smiles. A big smile in return. A waggled finger in comedic fashion. I thought I was about to lose my camera and/or SD card. Instead we were off with a good feeling that all was right in the world.

Then there was a time in Greece. We blatantly moored in a Ferry berth to fill up with water. There's no question we shouldn't have been there. A guy in Uniform rushed over looking a little stern. I gave him a big smile held up 10 fingers and said "10 Minutes" in English. He saw the hose, cracked into a big smile and all was well. Another time we were moored alone on a Quay of some kind somewhere way out of the way. A police car drove past on the nearby road and stopped. Due to language issues there was no communication at all. We took it that we shouldn't moor there. We took it that he was going to let us anyway. No idea if that's what actually happened. Either way there was no question of bribery and the exchange was polite and friendly.

In ski resorts I've found the Police to be a little less friendly but they must see a million drunk Englishmen who think they own the place. Even then I can't think of an example of a really bad attitude from the Rozzers.

In every case I've come across European 'officials' they've been 100pc polite and professional. In every case no documents were provided or requested.

In short, AFAIC France is a wonderful nation, AFAIC the French are a wonderful people. Their officials have never given me the slightest cause for complaint. I do wonder if sometimes people who repeatedly experience 'difficult' French customs, harbour staff and policemen bring it on themselves with a bad attitude. Or maybe I'm lucky and other's are unlucky.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Another example of officials behaving in their own way, rather than in the way some posters here think they ought to!

Hmmm. For three years you've been arguing that France has legislation that imposes a fixed penalty on vessels that cannot produce original registration docs. Then you admitted that you were not actually sure if that was true or not. Now it seems possible or even likely that the reason nobody can find the legislation is that it doesn't exist.

So having all but lost that debate, in your head you seem to have morphed the debate into an argument about "how foreign officials behave".

Has *anyone* expressed a view of any kind about how foreign officials ought to behave? If they have I can't find it. Maybe you can point at it?

Red Herring fallacy???

I have experienced all kinds of "official" behaviour, much of it quite different from the way officials behave in the UK. As many pleasant surprises as negative experiences.

Or to put it another way you piss off 50 per cent of the uniformed people you meet!

 

[Tranona]

Has *anyone* expressed a view of any kind about how foreign officials ought to behave? If they have I can't find it. Maybe you can point at it?

Just look in the mirror Toad. Just remember the saying about inability to see the motes in ones own eye!

Look for the references to "bent French rozzers" and all the other clap trap that spews forth - there is plenty of it.

And, no, I am not going to pick out the individual examples for you. You know where they are.

 

[Sailfree]

For three years you've been arguing that France has legislation that imposes a fixed penalty on vessels that cannot produce original registration docs. Then you admitted that you were not actually sure if that was true or not. Now it seems possible or even likely that the reason nobody can find the legislation is that it doesn't exist.

I must confess that I have still not decided whether you are a Troll or merely a person who is obstinate and happy to confuse posters that are genuinely trying to find out the facts and recommendations from other more experience formites.

I have stated before (and you chose to Poo poo it) that on 2 ocassions I have witness the French Customs inspecting all the ships papers in a Marina until they cart someone off to a hole in the wall to pay the on the spot fine. At Carteret I spoke with the skipper who paid the fine and he said it was because he could not produce the ships papers. The boat was from the CI.

For completness I would add that in my experience these checks are rare and that nearly all British Charter boats go to France with photocopies of the UK documentation and I am unaware of this being a problem but regularly reading this forum there is always someone reporting being stopped each year and the rules are stated by many that the ships papers must be originals.

In a similar manner though not many people are stopped by UK customs and we can sail in the UK without any registration, qualifications or insurance documents. I was and they asked to examine all the ships papers and the log showing where we had been. I was polite and so were they but I did resent their intrusion in my peaceful snooze while sailing back to the UK in addition to their black soled combat boots all over my deck.

I did not ask them to quote the laws upon which they searched my boat nor would I risk asking any other foreign authority on the basis of being polite usually creates the least trouble.

Can I repeat the offer I made to you last year. If you would care to join our YM scuttlebutt cruise to Cherbourg I will do my best to ensure you are visited by the French officials and we will all witness you establishing the reality. If you care to take me up on this offer I will happily pay for your meal in exchange for the entertainment value.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

the rules are stated by many that the ships papers must be originals.

The rules haven't been stated. The point of these endless circular threads is to get someone to point to the rules.

 

[Sailfree]

The rules haven't been stated. The point of these endless circular threads is to get someone to point to the rules.

For the benefit of the inexperienced as Toad will never accept anything

From the RYA website

"Registration Document
Registration of non-commercial pleasure craft is not compulsory for a UK Citizen who keeps their boat in the UK, but it is essential if you wish to take your boat outside of UK territorial waters. This applies both to boats which are sailed or driven to a foreign port and to dinghies, ribs, sports boats and PWC etc. which are trailered to other countries. You should be prepared to present the original registration document - photocopies are often not acceptable.

Carrying additional evidence of ownership such as a bill of sale is also recommended, especially if the vessel is registered on the UK Small Ship Register (SSR - Part III of the register). "

As a member I think overall the RYA do a pretty good job and I recommend membership and following their advice until you actually do know better.

 

[al.carpenter]

suggestion?

I live 7kms from Carteret (22kms from Cherbourg) so, when you have your next Cherbourg meeting, I propose to form an official delegation of three people and visit the Gendarmerie Maritime (I can arrange an appointment with an officer in charge of international matters) which is a five minutes walk from Chantereyne Marina and have once for all the answer to your question and then report to this forum... (no translator/interpreter fee!) You then will have it from the horse's mouth and end this argument once for all. Maybe...

 

[Baggy]

A dit bien monsieur

 

[Tranona]

For the benefit of the inexperienced as Toad will never accept anything


As a member I think overall the RYA do a pretty good job and I recommend membership and following their advice until you actually do know better.

Well done for having another go - but you are wasting your breath with Toad. He refuses to acept that the RYA is a "reliable source" despite receiving a personal invitation by their legal department to visit and discuss his concerns about their advice.

He is not in the least bit interested in discovering the "truth" as recognising it removes his whole reason for being. He has demonstrated over and over again an inability to accept other peoples' views. This in a way makes him fun as he is so predictable. Everytime this subject comes up he makes his unsupported statements. Fills up the thread nicely, and presumably gives him pleasure.

If he did not exist (if indeed he is real) somebody would have to invent him.

 

[BabyBlue]

France

As previously shown - the RYA site gives good advice. Main points I would offer are :-
Carry original proof of purchase / VAT paid documents.
Take your insurance documents and make sure you are covered for the trip.
Take passports for skipper and crew.
Take your VHF SR certificate.
Make sure all your flares are dated correctly.
Make sure your liferaft is serviced and you have the current service certificate.
Keep your purchase receipt for any diesel you have in the boat tanks.
Dont carry spare cans of diesel on board.
Dont forget that french customs officials have no sense of humour!
Have fun.

 

[Sailfree]

I live 7kms from Carteret (22kms from Cherbourg) so, when you have your next Cherbourg meeting, I propose to form an official delegation of three people and visit the Gendarmerie Maritime (I can arrange an appointment with an officer in charge of international matters) which is a five minutes walk from Chantereyne Marina and have once for all the answer to your question and then report to this forum... (no translator/interpreter fee!) You then will have it from the horse's mouth and end this argument once for all. Maybe...

Fantastic offer. I will let you know once weekend is sorted. Hope you can join us for a drink. Last few years I have arranged an afternoon boat/pontoon drinks & nibbles party.

FYI other threads have previously got to this stage and Toad then withdraws/goes quiet which makes me think he is a Troll. Problem is that unless people respond Toad confuses the advice to inexperienced people seeking clear advice.

 

[al.carpenter]

good

I suggest you have a list of questions, preferably that can be answered by "yes" or "no" without any ambiguity (no yes...but, no...but, yes but no...) See you then... (looking forward to have a chat and a drink with whoever attends...) Cheers. Al

 

[Sailfree]

I suggest you have a list of questions, preferably that can be answered by "yes" or "no" without any ambiguity (no yes...but, no...but, yes but no...) See you then... (looking forward to have a chat and a drink with whoever attends...) Cheers. Al

Thanks Al,

Anyone like to start the list following Al's advice above.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Fantastic offer.

Why wait all those months? Just ring them now, I gave the number at the start of this thread. (Al has rung them already.) Or even mail the RYA and get the details of this law/these laws?

You mentioned trolling - who is prolonging this you or me? It turns out you're an RYA member. If you wanted to end these threads all you ever had to do is call/mail the RYA find out where the 'rules' around this fixed penalty are stated.

He refuses to acept that the RYA is a "reliable source"

Quite the opposite, indeed, I once offered you £100[1] to get the details of these laws/rules from the RYA so everyone could see it. You declined.


[1] Paid to yourself of the RNLI as you wished.