Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems

Supine Being said:
I remember reading somewhere that they work to a certain percentage. Certainly the rule doesn't require you to eradicate every conceivable trace of red, but they require you to have no more than, say, 5-10% concentration in your tank - but don't take this verbatim as I don't have the correct number to hand.
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If you are going to make definitive statements then you need to quote your source.
Stu
 
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I get the impression it never bothered the Dutch, buying red over here.
However, Ramsgate Marina now sells white as well as red so that helps. Whether it's FAME-free or not I do not know.
 
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Cantata said:
The RYA note has been updated, now saying that 3 more boats have been fined in Nieuwpoort and one in Oostende, in the last few days.
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I think it's four more now, so five in total over the recent period. Looks like they are taking it seriously. All those that think they can get away with it by speaking nicely to the officials are probably kidding themselves.
 
Iminei said:
So if the sudden urge to visit Belgium arose, how would I get rid of any trace of red in my tank? Don't traces of the dye linger for a very long time?
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It lasts for years, even with repeated white fills. Replacing the tank and pies will help :D
 
sailorman said:
"Trace" is now being mentioned & that could mean anything
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Fair enough. I can't find whatever it was that was on my mind, but trawling around on here (which often seems to be the best source) brings up several threads from back in 2012 where it was said that the EU rules state that dye marker cannot be reliably detected in chemical testing in concentrations less than 0.12mg/l, where our red diesel contains a maximum of 9mg/l. If (and that's a big if) they were testing chemically, then a 1:75 dilution of your red would take care of that. More likely it's a visual check and you would be fine (without a 'd') at slightly larger concentrations. Still a pain, I admit.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

Just a passing curiosity - I'm unlikely to pass through Belgian waters or visit Belgium in a boat. It seems a safe assumption that a) the red diesel issue is not going to be resolved in a way that UK yachties would prefer, given other issues on the UK/EU agenda and b) there is now a significant risk of being fined. Do many UK registered yachts visit Belgium and is the loss of revenue to Belgian ports significant enough to create some internal leverage? If Belgian authorities are targetting UK yachts making passage through their territorial waters, particularly well offshore, it smacks of deliberate harassment to make a political point, rather than routine enforcement.
Presumably the number of Belgian flagged yachts visiting the UK is pretty small, unless they all carry all their diesel with them.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

@eddystone, I can't imagine that it has done wonders for visitor numbers in either direction. For us East Coasters it's a nice destination in its own right, and it's a handy stop on the way to the Netherlands, but it seems that people have been having second thoughts for a little while.

Ultimately the actions of successive UK governments have left us in this position, carrying the can for their own lack of attention at the international level. The derogation of the EU rule was always a fudge, and they never acted to capitalise on the time that it bought, Then they decided to wash their hands of the whole affair and let us get on with it. They left us wide open to be used as pawns in some other power-play which, as you say, seems to be happening here.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

Supine Being said:
Ultimately the actions of successive UK governments have left us in this position, carrying the can for their own lack of attention at the international level. The derogation of the EU rule was always a fudge, and they never acted to capitalise on the time that it bought, Then they decided to wash their hands of the whole affair and let us get on with it. They left us wide open to be used as pawns in some other power-play which, as you say, seems to be happening here.
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I blame the RYA for failing to tackle this as well. The RYA argued for leisure vessels to continue to be allowed to use red diesel due to the unavailability of white, but IMHO a better argument would have been to ban the use of red in marine vessels altogether and simply allow commercial vessels to reclaim the tax costs (in the same was as other other legitimate business expenses are recovered). That way, marine fuel suppliers would be forced to supply appropriate and unmarked diesel and the issue would go away. Doubtless, motor boaters would see their fuel costs increase but since the 60/40 split is based around fuel used for propulsion and heating purposes it's always been a somewhat dishonest fudge anyway.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

Sea_Spray said:
I blame the RYA for failing to tackle this as well. The RYA argued for leisure vessels to continue to be allowed to use red diesel due to the unavailability of white, but IMHO a better argument would have been to ban the use of red in marine vessels altogether and simply allow commercial vessels to reclaim the tax costs (in the same was as other other legitimate business expenses are recovered). That way, marine fuel suppliers would be forced to supply appropriate and unmarked diesel and the issue would go away. Doubtless, motor boaters would see their fuel costs increase but since the 60/40 split is based around fuel used for propulsion and heating purposes it's always been a somewhat dishonest fudge anyway.
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I would agree that would be the best way forward although I suspect what marinas would charge for road diesel would be somewhat different to supermarket forecourts.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

eddystone said:
I would agree that would be the best way forward although I suspect what marinas would charge for road diesel would be somewhat different to supermarket forecourts.
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Marinas are not really the issue and some have white pumps already. As I said in an earlier post the reason for the UK government adopting the policy it has is to ensure availability of fuel for all users around our coast and inland - same situation in Ireland. As you might appreciate our coastal situation is very different from that of Belgium and this just highlights the difficulty of imposing common rules across such a diverse group of countries as the EU tries to do.
 
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

Tranona said:
Marinas are not really the issue and some have white pumps already. As I said in an earlier post the reason for the UK government adopting the policy it has is to ensure availability of fuel for all users around our coast and inland
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The only reason to have red available at all is to enable bona-fide businesses to not pay fuel duty. Banning marine red totally, would force a switch to white everywhere and the legitimate duty reclaims be managed though post purchase mechanisms as per other business expenses. Having two fuel services would be prohibitively expensive in some remote areas, probably leaving leisure boaters with a dearth of fuel...
 
In a similar vein, there was an article in MBY last year of a boat going to Norway (yes, I know they aren't in the EU) and not only did the customs impound any unopened bottles of wine but they also fined the owner a considerable sum. Surely if a boat has bought whatever is onboard legally (guns and drugs excluded, as mentioned elsewhere) and we can safely say that Europe allows alcohol, we aren't talking about cruising the Arabian peninsula, then they ought to be allowed to consume those goods? Or am I too simple in my outlook?
 
Supine Being said:
Fair enough. I can't find whatever it was that was on my mind, but trawling around on here (which often seems to be the best source) brings up several threads from back in 2012 where it was said that the EU rules state that dye marker cannot be reliably detected in chemical testing in concentrations less than 0.12mg/l, where our red diesel contains a maximum of 9mg/l. If (and that's a big if) they were testing chemically, then a 1:75 dilution of your red would take care of that. More likely it's a visual check and you would be fine (without a 'd') at slightly larger concentrations. Still a pain, I admit.
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Lets see, you cant find a source so you make it up. Or does your "more likely" make it legitimate? I would love to have seen you using that argument to a university when writing a thesis!
Ah well never mind, I suspect that you are not a real identity anyway!
Stu
 
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