Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems

[Heckler]

Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?

Marinas are not really the issue and some have white pumps already. As I said in an earlier post the reason for the UK government adopting the policy it has is to ensure availability of fuel for all users around our coast and inland - same situation in Ireland. As you might appreciate our coastal situation is very different from that of Belgium and this just highlights the difficulty of imposing common rules across such a diverse group of countries as the EU tries to do.

Gibraltar is really funny, white diesel, no marker, duty free to boats at 57p a litre. Allegedly the same stuff as the road garage sells. Allegedly no jerry cans are allowed to be filled at the fuel pontoon. There has been hundreds of Spanish boats here in La Linea for the start of the tuna fishing season. Party time! But what was funny was watching my pontoon neighbour power boats going across to Gib, filling their tanks to the brim then coming back to LL and then a procession of full jerry cans being taken to their vehicles to fill them up!
Stu

 

[sailorman]

From the Belgian Embassy web site



BELGIAN CREATIVITY AND WELL-BEING
Belgium is an open society founded on tolerance. Its central position in Europe, its situation at the confluence between the Latin and Germanic worlds, its multilingualism and its pioneering political, social and religious freedoms have contributed to its cosmopolitan and friendly character.
A country of freedoms and innovations, life is good in Belgium where we know how to welcome you so you can discover a lifestyle that's both comfortable and easy-going.



Not so apparent in the last few weeks .

 

[Supine Being]

Lets see, you cant find a source so you make it up. Or does your "more likely" make it legitimate? I would love to have seen you using that argument to a university when writing a thesis!
Ah well never mind, I suspect that you are not a real identity anyway!
Stu

But I'm not writing a university thesis: I'm on an online forum talking to Skipper Stu(pid). Horses for courses

Of course you're free to take the ultra-cautious view that your engine must never have seen a drop of the red stuff because they're out to get you (and I guess I must be part of that conspiracy with my mysterious non-identity), but I reckon the margins are a bit more realistic.

 

[Moderator]

The East Coast red diesel thread has been moved to SCuttlebutt to give the problem greater visibility.


Please keep the posts civil, non-abusive, and courteous or more will be deleted.

Moderator

 

[st599]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

We need to send a few gunboats over to sort them out.

For following the rules?

 

[st599]

My understanding is that road diesel includes a (smallish) proportion of biodiesel. This can lead to diesel bug problems if left in the tank too long. I'm quite happy to have this understanding corrected.

No problem getting red here in Dorset.

Your understanding is wrong. Red Diesel has contained biofuel for nearly a decade.

 

[Niander]

The Belgiums are stupid for having such a rule have they not got more pressing problems than bullying and ripping off poor brits with a bit of cherry in their tanks like Jihadis with AKs?

 

[sailorman]

The Belgiums are stupid for having such a rule have they not got more pressing problems than bullying and ripping off poor brits with a bit of cherry in their tanks like Jihadis with AKs?

We are the problem for not implementing a directive, we sought a fudge. Our government had time enough to sort it BUT chose not to

 

[Heckler]

But I'm not writing a university thesis: I'm on an online forum talking to Skipper Stu(pid). Horses for courses

Of course you're free to take the ultra-cautious view that your engine must never have seen a drop of the red stuff because they're out to get you (and I guess I must be part of that conspiracy with my mysterious non-identity), but I reckon the margins are a bit more realistic.

Ah, sticks and stones etc. Losing the argument dear boy? Ah well you are on ignore now!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

Stu

 

[Daydream believer]

Lets see, you cant find a source so you make it up. Or does your "more likely" make it legitimate? I would love to have seen you using that argument to a university when writing a thesis!
Ah well never mind, I suspect that you are not a real identity anyway!
Stu

The point the stupine being was making was actually backed up with a quote from the eu regs at the time. I did copy the section on to my computer for future reference but as i am sitting on my boat in boulogne with only my ipad i cannot re post the extract. I can however, confirm that the eu does allow a percentage of red dye in the fuel. What that percentage i, i cannot recall but it is visible & would , in my opinion, leave grounds for dispute if the customs did not check the percentage when issuing the fine. I am sure that any good qc in the uk would pick that one up in a uk court & i expect the same would arise in the eu

 

[Stork_III]

Your understanding is wrong. Red Diesel has contained biofuel for nearly a decade.

Not necessarily, the diesel supplied in my marina (Shotley) is FAME (bio-diesel) free.

 

[dom]

Your understanding is wrong. Red Diesel has contained biofuel for nearly a decade.

I think you'll find his information is absolutely correct. The terminology 'marine diesel', 'gasoil', etc can imply a multitude of things and the term 'red diesel' simply relates to duty status. In addition all of the refineries have their own lingo and routinely blend distillates and residual to produce fuel which complies with different standards. Three common ones are:

EN590: European Std automotive fuel which typically has 7% FAME. This makes it unsuitable for marine use for many reasons and it is especially prone to the diesel bug and other particulates, which plague many boaters. Lots of marinas sell this stuff, which may lawfully be dyed red and duty rebated.

BS 2869: Standard Duty Rebated Gas Oil which 'may' contain up to 7% FAME. This is low sulphur stuff and may be used by all boaters, both inland and marine. The reduction in lubricity implied by low sulphur can easily be counteracted with other additives, but FAME (if it is added) can be a problem.

ISO8217 is the stuff to buy (IMHO) and Exxon's Fawley refinery in Southampton sells this product to many of the UK's South Coast Marinas. Many commercial marine operators contraindicate the use of any other fuel in their smaller vessels, ship generators, etc (ship engines are a different world). They hate the bug! It is perfectly lawful for UK suppliers to sell this to boaters, save to those in inland waterways.

Well worth finding out exactly what fuel one is purchasing and ensuring it is suitable for one's equipment/usage. If using the FAME stuff it is sensible to dip the tank regularly for water/contamination if no lower drain, and to fit a top loading Racor-type filter which are swifter to change in a rolling sea.

Apols for thread drift.

 

[sailorman]

And people wonder why we voted for what we did! That says it all!
Stu

Don't assume I voted as you did

 

[Javelin]

Will be interesting to see what happens at the EAORA Offshore Regatta with the Harwich to Oostande - Oostende to Ramsgate races this month and then again in September with the West Mersea to Oostende race.
I'm glad I'm not involved in these races this year.

 

[Niander]

better to make sure we leave the hoards are ariving 100000 so far this year landed in Italy!
and they're not looking for cheap diesel!

 

[eddystone]

Will be interesting to see what happens at the EAORA Offshore Regatta with the Harwich to Oostande - Oostende to Ramsgate races this month and then again in September with the West Mersea to Oostende race.
I'm glad I'm not involved in these races this year.

Makes entry fee effectively £545

 

[Daydream believer]

Will be interesting to see what happens at the EAORA Offshore Regatta with the Harwich to Oostande - Oostende to Ramsgate races this month and then again in September with the West Mersea to Oostende race.
I'm glad I'm not involved in these races this year.

I would expect the customs to leave well alone. Even they would not want the sour taste that would leave to permutate through not only our press but their own. Or there again they might , indeed , really want to do that to make the point- i would suspect not.
I have to say that apart from when my crew swore at one of them 50 years ago- resulting in our removal on to the pontoon & threat of boat seizure-and when we were threatened with a 2000 euro fine after allowing their tv film crew to film the customs coming aboard for a drug search ( we did not have the name on the stern of the boat) they were always very polite. & friendly. One customs officer ( Christian) used to look me up & come aboard for a chat & a coffee until he sadly passed away with cancer at the age of 36
Makes the whole fuel affair a real spoiler.

 

[Sandy]

Apols for thread drift.

Finally, some solid facts. Thanks for the post.

 

[Supine Being]

The point the stupine being was making was actually backed up with a quote from the eu regs at the time. I did copy the section on to my computer for future reference but as i am sitting on my boat in boulogne with only my ipad i cannot re post the extract. I can however, confirm that the eu does allow a percentage of red dye in the fuel. What that percentage i, i cannot recall but it is visible & would , in my opinion, leave grounds for dispute if the customs did not check the percentage when issuing the fine. I am sure that any good qc in the uk would pick that one up in a uk court & i expect the same would arise in the eu

Here's a link to a riveting document on the subject. Enjoy

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...gy_products/legislation/euromarker_report.pdf

 

[Heckler]

Don't assume I voted as you did

Indeed, and I am usually carefulto qualify with the words "the majority"
We do live in a democracy after all and it wouldnt be a democracy if we werent what we are.
I was having a discussion the other night with a person, he was struggling to find the words to describe what we know as the "social compact" where decent law abiding people abide by societies rules and accept the democratic will of the majority of people who engage with our democratic process. Is quite difficult for a me as a Brexit supporter to be continually told we are stupid and described as drooling rusk eating what evers!
Stu