Heckler
Active member
If you are going to make definitive statements then you need to quote your source.
Stu
Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems
- Thread starter Momac
- Start date
If you are going to make definitive statements then you need to quote your source.
Stu
Cantata
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
I get the impression it never bothered the Dutch, buying red over here.
However, Ramsgate Marina now sells white as well as red so that helps. Whether it's FAME-free or not I do not know.
I get the impression it never bothered the Dutch, buying red over here.
However, Ramsgate Marina now sells white as well as red so that helps. Whether it's FAME-free or not I do not know.
CLB
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
I think it's four more now, so five in total over the recent period. Looks like they are taking it seriously. All those that think they can get away with it by speaking nicely to the officials are probably kidding themselves.
I think it's four more now, so five in total over the recent period. Looks like they are taking it seriously. All those that think they can get away with it by speaking nicely to the officials are probably kidding themselves.
Supine Being
Well-known member
Why? I can't say what I want because someone that isn't you once helped someone that wasn't me?
sailorman
Well-known member
"Trace" is now being mentioned & that could mean anything
NormanS
Well-known member
Yes, just like the pirates!
Colvic Watson
Well-known member
It lasts for years, even with repeated white fills. Replacing the tank and pies will help
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
It lasts for years, even with repeated white fills. Replacing the tank and pies will help
Would those be the Fray Bentos ones? If so a good suggestion
Supine Being
Well-known member
Fair enough. I can't find whatever it was that was on my mind, but trawling around on here (which often seems to be the best source) brings up several threads from back in 2012 where it was said that the EU rules state that dye marker cannot be reliably detected in chemical testing in concentrations less than 0.12mg/l, where our red diesel contains a maximum of 9mg/l. If (and that's a big if) they were testing chemically, then a 1:75 dilution of your red would take care of that. More likely it's a visual check and you would be fine (without a 'd') at slightly larger concentrations. Still a pain, I admit.
sailorman
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
I have just emailed the Belgian Embassy, well the Ambassador actually Mr Rudolf Huygelen
I have provided the RYA & this link & asked for clarification as to why the Dutch & French dont have an issue but the Belgians do
His secretary is
Ann.Willems@diplobel.fed.be
http://unitedkingdom.diplomatie.belgium.be/en/whos-who-1
I have just emailed the Belgian Embassy, well the Ambassador actually Mr Rudolf Huygelen
I have provided the RYA & this link & asked for clarification as to why the Dutch & French dont have an issue but the Belgians do
His secretary is
Ann.Willems@diplobel.fed.be
http://unitedkingdom.diplomatie.belgium.be/en/whos-who-1
eddystone
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
Just a passing curiosity - I'm unlikely to pass through Belgian waters or visit Belgium in a boat. It seems a safe assumption that a) the red diesel issue is not going to be resolved in a way that UK yachties would prefer, given other issues on the UK/EU agenda and b) there is now a significant risk of being fined. Do many UK registered yachts visit Belgium and is the loss of revenue to Belgian ports significant enough to create some internal leverage? If Belgian authorities are targetting UK yachts making passage through their territorial waters, particularly well offshore, it smacks of deliberate harassment to make a political point, rather than routine enforcement.
Presumably the number of Belgian flagged yachts visiting the UK is pretty small, unless they all carry all their diesel with them.
Just a passing curiosity - I'm unlikely to pass through Belgian waters or visit Belgium in a boat. It seems a safe assumption that a) the red diesel issue is not going to be resolved in a way that UK yachties would prefer, given other issues on the UK/EU agenda and b) there is now a significant risk of being fined. Do many UK registered yachts visit Belgium and is the loss of revenue to Belgian ports significant enough to create some internal leverage? If Belgian authorities are targetting UK yachts making passage through their territorial waters, particularly well offshore, it smacks of deliberate harassment to make a political point, rather than routine enforcement.
Presumably the number of Belgian flagged yachts visiting the UK is pretty small, unless they all carry all their diesel with them.
Supine Being
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
@eddystone, I can't imagine that it has done wonders for visitor numbers in either direction. For us East Coasters it's a nice destination in its own right, and it's a handy stop on the way to the Netherlands, but it seems that people have been having second thoughts for a little while.
Ultimately the actions of successive UK governments have left us in this position, carrying the can for their own lack of attention at the international level. The derogation of the EU rule was always a fudge, and they never acted to capitalise on the time that it bought, Then they decided to wash their hands of the whole affair and let us get on with it. They left us wide open to be used as pawns in some other power-play which, as you say, seems to be happening here.
@eddystone, I can't imagine that it has done wonders for visitor numbers in either direction. For us East Coasters it's a nice destination in its own right, and it's a handy stop on the way to the Netherlands, but it seems that people have been having second thoughts for a little while.
Ultimately the actions of successive UK governments have left us in this position, carrying the can for their own lack of attention at the international level. The derogation of the EU rule was always a fudge, and they never acted to capitalise on the time that it bought, Then they decided to wash their hands of the whole affair and let us get on with it. They left us wide open to be used as pawns in some other power-play which, as you say, seems to be happening here.
jimi
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Well, that's Belgium off my places to go list.
Well, that's Belgium off my places to go list.
Elemental
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
I blame the RYA for failing to tackle this as well. The RYA argued for leisure vessels to continue to be allowed to use red diesel due to the unavailability of white, but IMHO a better argument would have been to ban the use of red in marine vessels altogether and simply allow commercial vessels to reclaim the tax costs (in the same was as other other legitimate business expenses are recovered). That way, marine fuel suppliers would be forced to supply appropriate and unmarked diesel and the issue would go away. Doubtless, motor boaters would see their fuel costs increase but since the 60/40 split is based around fuel used for propulsion and heating purposes it's always been a somewhat dishonest fudge anyway.
eddystone
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
I would agree that would be the best way forward although I suspect what marinas would charge for road diesel would be somewhat different to supermarket forecourts.
I would agree that would be the best way forward although I suspect what marinas would charge for road diesel would be somewhat different to supermarket forecourts.
Tranona
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
Marinas are not really the issue and some have white pumps already. As I said in an earlier post the reason for the UK government adopting the policy it has is to ensure availability of fuel for all users around our coast and inland - same situation in Ireland. As you might appreciate our coastal situation is very different from that of Belgium and this just highlights the difficulty of imposing common rules across such a diverse group of countries as the EU tries to do.
Marinas are not really the issue and some have white pumps already. As I said in an earlier post the reason for the UK government adopting the policy it has is to ensure availability of fuel for all users around our coast and inland - same situation in Ireland. As you might appreciate our coastal situation is very different from that of Belgium and this just highlights the difficulty of imposing common rules across such a diverse group of countries as the EU tries to do.
apollo
...
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Yep us too, thats a whole load of restaurant business going to France instead.
Yep us too, thats a whole load of restaurant business going to France instead.
Elemental
Well-known member
Re: again it seems...audiens cave ?
The only reason to have red available at all is to enable bona-fide businesses to not pay fuel duty. Banning marine red totally, would force a switch to white everywhere and the legitimate duty reclaims be managed though post purchase mechanisms as per other business expenses. Having two fuel services would be prohibitively expensive in some remote areas, probably leaving leisure boaters with a dearth of fuel...
Cheery
Well-known member
In a similar vein, there was an article in MBY last year of a boat going to Norway (yes, I know they aren't in the EU) and not only did the customs impound any unopened bottles of wine but they also fined the owner a considerable sum. Surely if a boat has bought whatever is onboard legally (guns and drugs excluded, as mentioned elsewhere) and we can safely say that Europe allows alcohol, we aren't talking about cruising the Arabian peninsula, then they ought to be allowed to consume those goods? Or am I too simple in my outlook?
Heckler
Active member
Lets see, you cant find a source so you make it up. Or does your "more likely" make it legitimate? I would love to have seen you using that argument to a university when writing a thesis!
Ah well never mind, I suspect that you are not a real identity anyway!
Stu