Real costs of a 10 year old 65' flybridge yacht

[Portofino]

Agree with your view on Galeons but hugely disagree with your take on Italian boats .
I wouldn’t ( I know it’s an easy rabbit hole to drop into ) mix up cars , any philosophies about cars country of manufacturing with boats .

Italians simply manufacture the best quality and arguably best designed boats .They are put together better and are more durable which if you are in the 10-15 yr range will be noticeable .
There engineering ( think Romans ) is ahead when it comes to boats

Eg ( but not exclusive) take teak .The Brits use a veneers .Ok theres variable thicknesses, but the Italian equivalent boat will have solid again variable thickness but they tend to be the thicker not thinnest .

Having spent 20 yrs in the Med done a lot of boat shows and people / boat watching the Brits are ok ish but 2 nd division to the Italians .It’s just there are a lot of Brits in the Med boaty scene arguably brain washed , spoon fed the home brands .That doesn’t make them ( the brands ) better just popular with Brits which as I said there are a disproportionate number esp in Spain .They were cheaper too at build back in the day .Price dictated there popularity as well here .

Add a decade or so on and that starting price equals somewhat …..your 10-15 yr old valid point .Making the initial more expensive and dare say it exclusive, better built Italian boats now better value as used prospects.

A San Lorenzo 62 could be had for a sum well within your budget and leave plenty of your $2M toy money to play the mkts or invest in property or have the assurance of a huge slush fund to run it , fuel big trips etc .The equivalent Brit brands can’t touch it get anywhere near the quality .

 

[SunseekerStan]

Thanks for this comment. I will take another look at Italian boats. In my experience, and I'm not knocking on Italians because I LOVE their passionate culture and amazing eye for design, whenever there's electronics involved it simply is just a disaster waiting to happen. I guess it's unfair to assume the same of their boats.

The Sanlorenzo will not work as it doesn't have a hydraulic swim platform for my jetski.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks for this comment. I will take another look at Italian boats. In my experience, and I'm not knocking on Italians because I LOVE their passionate culture and amazing eye for design, whenever there's electronics involved it simply is just a disaster waiting to happen. I guess it's unfair to assume the same of their boats.

The Sanlorenzo will not work as it doesn't have a hydraulic swim platform for my jetski.

IMO, don't get too fixed on that hydraulic platform. Look at the Princess 67 - we have had ours since 2008 (bought new). A good sized bathing platform and space on the flybridge. That gives us the ability to have a Jetski AND a big tender - and boy, we have a big tender - a Novurania 430.

 

[SunseekerStan]

That's a beautiful boat! I would love to hear your experience in the years of ownership. What does it typically cost you to run it? (Not including docking), but maintenance, insurance, fuel and various?

I have a jetski on my current boat and it's a mess. To move it in and out of the water I connect it to the hydraulic gangway. It's a complex task that usually requires two people. Having a hydraulic swim platform would make it so much easier. I don't like the idea of having anything up on the flybridge personally.

 

[Portofino]

That's a beautiful boat! I would love to hear your experience in the years of ownership. What does it typically cost you to run it? (Not including docking), but maintenance, insurance, fuel and various?

I have a jetski on my current boat and it's a mess. To move it in and out of the water I connect it to the hydraulic gangway. It's a complex task that usually requires two people. Having a hydraulic swim platform would make it so much easier. I don't like the idea of having anything up on the flybridge personally.

Hydraulic platforms are just another maintenance issue on a aged , out of warranty boat .
Opt out of that one .
SL 62 s crane much like the Prinny 67 ^ deals with jet skis easily .

A clear bathing platform means a shorter trip out to cool off is less hassle if there’s a group of folks .
Also when visiting marinas some have low docks so stepping off can be done without the passerelle with a clear platform.

 

[Momac]

The value to my general wellbeing brought by owning and enjoying a boat , and even the satisfaction of doing work on the boat has been immense . It has helped me to keep working longer than I might otherwise have done. I am now reducing working hours towards retirement ad the boat remains a significant aspect of my life.
Not sure what value folks would put on that but for me the value has been and remains worth every penny.

I am far beneath the OP's league of expenditure.

As for the 10% rule I would say that's about right for this year in my case. But that has not always been so. The boat is now 21 years old . In the last 10 years of ownership the value of the boat in £'s has not changed much. Values did rise due to Covid but have since fallen . However the cost of almost everything else like maintenance and berthing has risen considerably . So in real terms , due to inflation, the boat is worth quite a lot less than it was 10 years ago.
If I should now buy a 10 year old boat of similar size it would cost at least double (or more) the value of my present boat but the running costs would be about the same with the exception of insurance which would be higher in proportion to price paid.

Just my experience and estimated in my head as I don't work out the true cost with any precision.

There must be folks who have relatively inexpensive boats that cost almost as much or more to keep each year than they are worth

 

[SunseekerStan]

Having seen how tenders and jetskis bounce around, sustained from the lift on the flybridge as a sudden wave hits the boat.. this is a hard no from me. I don't want to deal with this setup at all.

 

[SunseekerStan]

Momac, I, like you am thoroughly enjoying ownership, down to simple things like going down to the marina just to put on some music and polish the chrome, repair small things within my capacity, talk to my boating neighbors and just enjoy the change of scenery, even if I don't take her out on that particular day.

Not every investment we make is with money in mind. The enjoyment this boat has brought me, my family and friends cannot really be measured in money, especially when we factor in the great unknown which is our time on this planet. There's a limited time for hobbies and interests. Even having multiple properties and cars will take away from useful distribution of time.

What we need to do is identify our greatest joys, find a way to balance our time so that we can allocate more time and money to these things. As we get older there's a shift from accumulation to spending. What is worth more? Experiences in the moment while you have your health, or deferred to the great unknown in 10 years? Sure, you'll have more money in 10 years if you manage it well, but there's always a way to enjoy the moment with a less costly depreciating asset in the meantime.

This is why I am value conscious, because I believe in sweet spots and I believe there's always the optimal deal to be had. You just need to find it and be diligent in your research.

And as always, the difference between a big boat and a bigger boat isn't great. The difference between a boat and no boat is invaluable.

 

[benjenbav]

That's a beautiful boat! I would love to hear your experience in the years of ownership. What does it typically cost you to run it? (Not including docking), but maintenance, insurance, fuel and various?

I have a jetski on my current boat and it's a mess. To move it in and out of the water I connect it to the hydraulic gangway. It's a complex task that usually requires two people. Having a hydraulic swim platform would make it so much easier. I don't like the idea of having anything up on the flybridge personally.

Over the years Hurricane has shared a wealth of information about buying and using that boat on here.

If you can get the search engine to perform you could spend quite a few happy hours reading about it.

 

[SunseekerStan]

Isn't this a forum for discussion? Pretty much everything will have been talked about at some point and old posts may not be relevant anymore. Things have changed a lot in the last couple of years, including cost of maintenance. I would love to hear his updated numbers. I have searched but couldn't find much that relates to my particular situation.

 

[Portofino]

Having seen how tenders and jetskis bounce around, sustained from the lift on the flybridge as a sudden wave hits the boat.. this is a hard no from me. I don't want to deal with this setup at all.

Get a boat with a gyro .An example of a first owner taking the financial hit bit like options on cars when it comes to residuals with 10 - 15 yr boats .
At the end of the day the final decision on which modal ought to be made on its maintenance history esp the machinery and gen condition, what’s been recently done and what’s just over the horizon survey wise .

Eg a Prinny 68 or similar which needs teak replacement due to the 4 mm veneer being worn out , but has a Hilo which is on original hydraulics and still works , has faded interior sun bleached interior woods ( the OEM wasn’t meant to stand up a decade under Med sun anyhow , has original exhausts ( 4 to potentially replace €20_25 K ) .

Or a SL 62 say a 07 modal yr which has real 12 mm teak with another decade of life , recent ish exhaust s , the interior woods as new and its to you dreaded FB crane but the last owner fitted a gyro which works .

Both boats within €50 K of each other .

Then there’s the engines fortunately for this size unless you are daft enough ( you haven’t to me shown any stupidity yet ! ) to get involved with Volvo Penta IPS you can dodge this bullet .

This leaves MAN , MTU and CAT . Proper players at large engines .
CAT s have dreaded intercooler issues they are lifed for 7 yrs another big bill to avoid .


That leaves the two German brands both are good .My preference is MAN because they have a larger dealer network , aligned with DAF the road / truck versions .Often the techs do marine and road so with MAN that’s rail , trucks , coaches etc .MAN also overnight parts and keep parts inventory dated way back they have proper after sales support .Speaking from experience here .

Having said that I am sure MTU ( not found in trucks / busses and not aligned to DAF ) do perfectly good marine support in the popular areas .

You need to keep your eye on the after sales side in your area of the engines .
All this should figure higher than a Hilo imho .It’s very much the case of putting the right end of the telescope to your eye

 

[SunseekerStan]

I like this! You are the second person I've talked to who favors MAN engines. Unfortunately my current boat has the IPS system but it has been fine so far, knock on wood. I don't use the joystick much, though. I will be sure to avoid it in the future. The med sun is hard on the teak, that's beyond discussion. Mine will need some beautifying work next year.

On the topic of the Sanlorenzo I get it, but the boat is just not for me. I don't like the way it looks, I don't like the lift system, I don't like the layout or the lack of certain must have features. But to each his own.

 

[benjenbav]

Isn't this a forum for discussion? Pretty much everything will have been talked about at some point and old posts may not be relevant anymore. Things have changed a lot in the last couple of years, including cost of maintenance. I would love to hear his updated numbers. I have searched but couldn't find much that relates to my particular situation.

Looking at 10-15 y/o boats, non-routine maintenance items will include teak replacement and adding stabilisation.

 

[Hurricane]

That's a beautiful boat! I would love to hear your experience in the years of ownership. What does it typically cost you to run it? (Not including docking), but maintenance, insurance, fuel and various?

I have a jetski on my current boat and it's a mess. To move it in and out of the water I connect it to the hydraulic gangway. It's a complex task that usually requires two people. Having a hydraulic swim platform would make it so much easier. I don't like the idea of having anything up on the flybridge personally.

The crane on our Princess spans the bathing platform so it really isn't a problem lifting a Jetski - heavy but not an issue.

That said, we don't have the Jeski anymore - got it out of my system.
The tender is a much better alternative.
I've rigged ours so that the chocks can be positioned either on the Flybridge or the Bathing Platform.
When anchoring overnight, I like to be "rigged to go" in case the weather changes so the tender is always lifted on board and in those circumstances, it is usually on the bathing platform overnight.
Also, you need to be sure that your tender doesn't interfere with the passerelle if you are visiting a Med style berth. Our passerelle is a cassette type, hidden under the cockpit deck so I would need careful consideration to the size of my tender if I only had a hydraulic platform. In other words, I couldn't have such a large tender.

Lifting the tender onto the Flybridge is such a good place for storage during the off season months - safe from theft, less exposure to the water etc.

Looking at the Squadron in your OP, I remember when we ordered the Princess 67 back in 2007. We excluded the Squadron 66 at the time because it had such a small bathing platform. There were other things we didn't like at the time as well. The Princess 67 has everything we wanted - and still does.

You seem worried about the costs - who wouldn't be. Where are you planning on keeping a 65+ boat.
Have you looked at the Med?
I would never bring our 67 back to the UK - she's too big to go anywhere (assuming you want to do more than marina hop).
We have got used to anchoring in nice little bays - only going into marinas if we have to.
Relatively speaking, cruising the Med can be quite inexpensive as long as you choose your location carefully.
For example, we keep the boat on mainland Spain and pop over to the Balearics when we want.
This makes the boating significantly cheaper than keeping the boat in (say) Mallorca.
Like you, we had a Sealine (T51) before buying the Princess.
We keep our 20m Princess in Sant Carles Marina for less than half the price of our Sealing on the Hamble.
And there are even cheaper methods than that - for example, I know of 20m rented berths in Sant Carles for £350 per month (including electricity and water etc).
We often drive our car down to Sant Carles as well so moving stuff to/from the boat is easy.
In fact, we are off there for a month on Wednesday - overnight ferry to northern Spain followed by a 6 hour drive and thats it.

Folks on this forum will know that I do a lot of the maintenance, replacements and repairs myself.
Again, Sant Carles is great - we have our own boatyard where you can do your own work yourself.

I'm not sure I can put a figure on it but 10% is WAY out.
In fact, I guess my annual boat costs (actual boat costs) are less than £20K pa.

Does that help?

As a taster, this is a link to a typical cruise round the islands a few years ago.
The idea is that the savings of keeping the boat on mainland Spain more than pays for any fuel used to cross over.

 

[MapisM]

In my experience, and I'm not knocking on Italians because I LOVE their passionate culture and amazing eye for design, whenever there's electronics involved it simply is just a disaster waiting to happen.

That's a weird way to not knock on Italians, if I've ever seen one.
Care to explain what "your experience" is, exactly?
I for one am interested to hear what substantiate such a sweeping generalization.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

That's a weird way to not knock on Italians, if I've ever seen one.
Care to explain what "your experience" is, exactly?
I for one am interested to hear what substantiate such a sweeping generalization.

Yup I don’t get it either…. he’s dissing some of the world’s greatest boat builders.

 

[petem]

I don't get this thread. The cost of running a boat will vary greatly depending on where it's based. If the OP wants to understand the costs then surely all he has to do is speak to the local MAN or whatever agents and get some quotes. He already knows the cost of the berth and insurance cost could be easily determined with a few enquiries. Ongoing repairs (new linings, teak etc) will also depend on the amounts that local boat fixers charge.

As virtually everyone agrees, the 10% really is nonsense as maintenance costs rise over time and the value of the boat reduces.