Possible dream/idea feasibility

[spindly_killer_fish]

So you have no money to go sailing now as, quite sensibly, you are putting life, family and security first.

That is wise and excellent. But it does put all this into absolute fantasy and pipedream territory that has virtually no chance of ever happening.


1) you don't know if you or your wife like sailing or even get seasick. I'll be provocative here but the majority of people on here have wives who at best tolerate going on a boat. There are lots of exceptions but I think if you took a straw pole of the population the chances are either you or your wife will detest it.

2) you have no passion for the water or you would be queueing up to get a cheap dinghy or cruising boat beforehand. Focusing on your existing commitments wiuld not preclude you chatering or buying incredibly cheaply.

3) tastes do indeed change over the years. Especially if you have no idea at rhe moment of how catamarans sail compared to monos or the advantages of each type. Lagoons do look jolly nice, especially to the newbie, but you might want to watch a few parley videos before buying a secondhand one.

I'll wager that you might add afew posts to this but that will be the last heard from you on a sailing forum.

You raise some valid points, pessimistic, but valid.

Do I have access to spare money? yes but i prefer to manage it for the long term. As mentioned I will be taking some trips and or courses during the summer.

Apart from a good amount of journeys to and from Islands in Thailand and a fishing trip in Florida no other boating experience, there was no seasickness but that doesnt mean it wouldnt happen in the future, granted we were passengers and not sailing.

Passion for the water? would i like to spend days at anchor or in a marina in a tropical land? island hopping and relaxing and working on a boat at leisure? who wouldn't? I also don't own a parrot btw but do like birds.

Now the original point of this post was feasibility of such a lifestyle which has since opened my eyes to a lot of things to think about including a change from the original boat type. over the course of the next few years I will try to learn what I can and be more an more certain whether or not this can be achieved. but will i spend my days on a forum arguing over an idea for the future? no i have better things to do. but that doesnt mean I won't be reading and asking questions.

 

[Chris_Robb]

@spindly_killer_fish ref a catamaran, don't get distracted by speed i.e. those fast, narrow hulled ones with daggerboards just don't have the needed carrying capacity that a typical cruising sailor needs, what with long term provisions, spares, toys (diving gear etc). Saying that, the typical Lagoon or Fontaine Pajot do need to be handled with care. Just don't push them unless absolutely necessary.

The Lagoons in particular are subject to structural problems, which with the wringing stresses on a Catermaran on an ocean crossing are can be severe.....

 

[Chris_Robb]

Get some sailing lessons.Go & buy a cheapish 38 ft yacht that is well within your current budget. Then come back to us in 5 years time & tell us how you got on.
The boat will give you a feel for sailing. Most importantly your wife will get some experience. You can get the catamaran later once she has experienced a few dollops of water down her neck & the feel of a rolling anchorage. If she can do that on a 38 ft boat she will be OK for a more stable one long term.
As for you- Doing a few repairs & learning how to fettle things that constantly break will do you in good stead for the future. Either you can or you cannot. On a 38 ft boat used for weekends & hols the cost will be less of a hit & you will get the feel for it.
You will learn where & how to get stuff repaired & how to sail a boat. You will soon find out if you want to go forward & exchange it for a campervan.
A 40 ft mono hull is ample for acouple as alivaboard & not prohibitably expensive for many.
As for £1500 PM.- Hell I cannot live on that at home now, without the boat & that does not allow for inflation coming.

This is a very good plan. You will learn how to sail, and whether you like it or not. 38 to 40 foot ideal.
When you come to set off time, you will have a much better plan of what you want. Also these older boats such as the Westerly type are solid and well built and IF LOOKED AFTER will have a good resale value. I recently sold my Westerly Oceanlord for around the same price as I had paid 20 years earlier. That's not counting what I spent on it......

You will learn what is involved in running a boat if you do most of the work yourself.

 

[john_morris_uk]

FWIW tomorrow is the anniversary of our arrival in Barbados having left UK a year last August. We’d left Gran Canaria 17 days perviously and had a good passage across the Atlantic. This is on an old 39’ sailboat probably not worth more than £60k but which we’ve owned and sailed and enjoyed holidays on for the last twenty years. She’s had a lot of hours of my time and money spent on her but she looks after us very well.

The point I’m making is that you don’t need to have a sailboat or motor yacht worth hundreds of thousands of £ to live and sail the dream.

We always joke that the view we get from our cockpit as we sip our evening drinks is exactly the same as everyone else’s.

Hot showers every day if we want. Ice in the gin and cabins cooled with fans and shade. What more do you need/want.

Edit: we paid rather less than £40k for her 20 years ago, but she was in a bit of a state! We’ve spent more than that on her since.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

The Lagoons in particular are subject to structural problems, which with the wringing stresses on a Catermaran on an ocean crossing are can be severe.....

oh they are just pretty, i know nothing more than that and have a good chunk of time to find something after lots of consultation and cloer to the time.

As with everything, it would be compromise, we would prefer space and comfort over speed, hence a cat over a single hull.

@john_morris_uk Congrats on your anniversary! you're right, i don't have to spend that amount, but I imagine the more I spend, the newer the boat with less I need to do initially. Id never never dream of sailing across an ocean with just me and the wife and would hire a skipper at the very least, too much could go wrong for which i would be ill prepared at best.

Just out of interest, lets say somewhere on the south coast, how much roughly would it costs per year to run and moore a 38ft yacht?

 

[Stingo]

Just out of interest, lets say somewhere on the south coast, how much roughly would it costs per year to run and moore a 38ft yacht?

Go to www.noforeignland.com where up-to-date info or links to marinas can be found.

 

[Stingo]

p.s. it's almost possible to get from the UK south coast all the way down south to the Algarve just by day sailing. This is where you will experience all the nasty challenges of long distance cruising eg tides, currents, other marine traffic, waiting for a weather window and so on. Once you leave the Algarve, most of those challenges vanish because you're now into the bliss and ease of trade wind sailing, which is super easy. My point is don't be too frightened of an ocean crossing.... 95% of the passage is usually 100% boring.

 

[prestomg27]

Just out of interest, lets say somewhere on the south coast, how much roughly would it costs per year to run and moore a 38ft yacht?

That completely depends. On the solent, a marina berth would cost you maybe 11k per year.

My mgc27, i have spent maybe 3k per year for each of the last 3 years but i gave done a fair bit to her.
However, a marina berth on the east coast might be as cheap as 4k per year for a 38 footer, or less. Outside the solent would be cheaper.

As someone else said. You could get a decent westerly centaur for 6k and berth her on a swinging mooring for next to nothing.

Many people start small for a range of reasons. Many don't.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

p.s. it's almost possible to get from the UK south coast all the way down south to the Algarve just by day sailing. This is where you will experience all the nasty challenges of long distance cruising eg tides, currents, other marine traffic, waiting for a weather window and so on. Once you leave the Algarve, most of those challenges vanish because you're now into the bliss and ease of trade wind sailing, which is super easy. My point is don't be too frightened of an ocean crossing.... 95% of the passage is usually 100% boring.

That's good to know, thanks although i'd still be much happier with someone more experienced on board for any longer journey.

 

[PlanB]

When we were still relative novices, we hired a skipper to stand behind us on our first cross channel trip, to feed us general information, confirm when we were doing it right and make suggestions when we weren't. That gave us the confidence to do it on our own next time.

En route for the Med, we hit the tail end of hurricane Katrina off the coast of Portugal. I hadn't packed my brave pants, so had an extremely experienced skipper accompany the OH for six days of the trip, while I travelled by land. The skipper knew what the boat was capable of, which was far more than we were able to take, so it worked.

On another subject, you really do need to know that both you and your wife are willing and able to both helm and to do the ropes etc. I have seen far too many men helming while their wife struggled with the ropes in difficult mooring conditions.

 

[PlanB]

Just out of interest, how are you going to manage the 90/180 Schengen thing, always assuming it still exists when you set sail.

 

[Sea Change]

Wrong thread, oops

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

That completely depends. On the solent, a marina berth would cost you maybe 11k per year.

My mgc27, i have spent maybe 3k per year for each of the last 3 years but i gave done a fair bit to her.
However, a marina berth on the east coast might be as cheap as 4k per year for a 38 footer, or less. Outside the solent would be cheaper.

As someone else said. You could get a decent westerly centaur for 6k and berth her on a swinging mooring for next to nothing.

Many people start small for a range of reasons. Many don't.

When we were still relative novices, we hired a skipper to stand behind us on our first cross channel trip, to feed us general information, confirm when we were doing it right and make suggestions when we weren't. That gave us the confidence to do it on our own next time.

En route for the Med, we hit the tail end of hurricane Katrina off the coast of Portugal. I hadn't packed my brave pants, so had an extremely experienced skipper accompany the OH for six days of the trip, while I travelled by land. The skipper knew what the boat was capable of, which was far more than we were able to take, so it worked.

On another subject, you really do need to know that both you and your wife are willing and able to both helm and to do the ropes etc. I have seen far too many men helming while their wife struggled with the ropes in difficult mooring conditions.

well it will be a learning experience for both of us, worst case there is always a plan b

I don't plan on hanging around the med, the idea is to get a bit of coastal experience, then head to SE Asia......the plan B might just e to buy a boat in SE Asia or the US if thats possible and cut out some of the journey, but wheres the fun in that.

Plan C, sell everything completely here, buy an apartment in Bangkok and a boat there

Theres probably plan D somewhere

 

[PlanB]

I know someone who bought a yacht near Gib, sailed across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal and across the Pacific, home to New Zealand.
On mature reflection, he thought that one ocean was enough.

My boat was called Plan B.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

I know someone who bought a yacht near Gib, sailed across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal and across the Pacific, home to New Zealand.
On mature reflection, he thought that one ocean was enough.

My boat was called Plan B.

its a long way for sure.

I think this thread has departed a little from my initial intention, it was more about "if i wanted to do this (which i do), how possible is it and what are thoughts and guidance could be offered"
It would appear a sailboat is certainly more budget friendly in terms of running costs and a cat wins in terms of living space.

As im trying to save as much as possible into pension at the moment which of course is before 40% tax and 13% NI so im battling with giving some of that up to buy a weekend toy to learn on, more money saved now, more budget later on.

 

[Tranona]

its a long way for sure.

I think this thread has departed a little from my initial intention, it was more about "if i wanted to do this (which i do), how possible is it and what are thoughts and guidance could be offered"
It would appear a sailboat is certainly more budget friendly in terms of running costs and a cat wins in terms of living space.

As im trying to save as much as possible into pension at the moment which of course is before 40% tax and 13% NI so im battling with giving some of that up to buy a weekend toy to learn on, more money saved now, more budget later on.

I suspect that one of the key things you can take from this discussion is that there is no one way of planning and executing such a project. There are clear patterns of course as people tend to look at what others do successfully and follow the pattern. However change is constant and there are new patterns emerging all the time. For example 20 years ago your initial Red Sea route to the east would have been normal - there were even organized rallies to join. Then first piracy and the aftermath of the Iraq war started the slide to political instability and anything east and south of Cyprus became a no go area. Equally the Med in general was the top destination for many N Europeans, but for Brits now that is no longer attractive.

The N Atlantic run has always been popular for Europeans but it is no longer an "adventure" as it was 30 or 40 years ago and the combination of bigger and better boats and gear plus the developments in infrastructure partly around the charter industry has changed its nature. A few used to carry on through the Panama Canal to the Pacific but mainly for the islands (particularly for the French) or Australia and New Zealand. The area you are aiming for - Thailand and Malaysia is relatively new and more of a target for west coast USA or Australia and New Zealand. You only have to look at the brokers adverts for boats out there to see where they have come from.

The most fundamental change over the last 45 years or so that I have been involved with cruising boats has been the type of boat that people choose for their adventure. Boats were historically designed for sailing first and living accommodation was "fitted in". Now boats, both monohulls and particularly catamarans are designed from the inside out and then given acceptable sailing performance. There is no doubt about it that modern boats are superior for cruising and living aboard IF you want the comforts of modern living - recognising that for most cruisers the time spent at sea is a small proportion of the overall time spent on the boat. However to access modern boats of a decent size requires a budget greater than most "ordinary" people have - hence the current popularity of boats (mostly monohulls) around 20-40 years old that can be bought and prepared for a budget of £50-150k. Increase from the top end by another £100k then a whole new world opens up of either bigger newer monohulls or decent catamarans. The other thing that has changed is that sailing such boats is no longer the challenge it was. Not only are the boats easier to sail physically but developments in weather forecasting and communications make avoiding adverse weather easier.

Where this is leading is that by the time you start planning seriously there will be different options available and maybe as many have suggested you spend the next few years getting some experience of sailing and living on the size and type of boat you might eventually choose. This is best done by taking a course (both of you) and getting the basics out of the way then chartering perhaps once a year in both monos and cats. To my mind this is a much better use of money than buying even a modest boat for use here. Even the simplest 30' boat costs around £4-5k a year to run once you include the costs of travelling to use it and that will buy you 2 weeks chartering.

I suspect you will also find that you need to consider which is more important - the journey or the destination. Getting a boat from here to Thailand under sail is a massive undertaking and is likely to take you 2-3 years if you want to "see" the places you stop at on the way. You then have the problem of what to with the boat at the end. You will have a big chunk of your assets tied up in the boat which you may not be able to turn back into cash easily. Lots of abandoned boats around the world where the owners have either not thought through the end game or circumstances (often health with retirees) change. Plenty to think about.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I suspect that one of the key things you can take from this discussion is that there is no one way of planning and executing such a project. There are clear patterns of course as people tend to look at what others do successfully and follow the pattern. However change is constant and there are new patterns emerging all the time. For example 20 years ago your initial Red Sea route to the east would have been normal - there were even organized rallies to join. Then first piracy and the aftermath of the Iraq war started the slide to political instability and anything east and south of Cyprus became a no go area. Equally the Med in general was the top destination for many N Europeans, but for Brits now that is no longer attractive.

The N Atlantic run has always been popular for Europeans but it is no longer an "adventure" as it was 30 or 40 years ago and the combination of bigger and better boats and gear plus the developments in infrastructure partly around the charter industry has changed its nature. A few used to carry on through the Panama Canal to the Pacific but mainly for the islands (particularly for the French) or Australia and New Zealand. The area you are aiming for - Thailand and Malaysia is relatively new and more of a target for west coast USA or Australia and New Zealand. You only have to look at the brokers adverts for boats out there to see where they have come from.

The most fundamental change over the last 45 years or so that I have been involved with cruising boats has been the type of boat that people choose for their adventure. Boats were historically designed for sailing first and living accommodation was "fitted in". Now boats, both monohulls and particularly catamarans are designed from the inside out and then given acceptable sailing performance. There is no doubt about it that modern boats are superior for cruising and living aboard IF you want the comforts of modern living - recognising that for most cruisers the time spent at sea is a small proportion of the overall time spent on the boat. However to access modern boats of a decent size requires a budget greater than most "ordinary" people have - hence the current popularity of boats (mostly monohulls) around 20-40 years old that can be bought and prepared for a budget of £50-150k. Increase from the top end by another £100k then a whole new world opens up of either bigger newer monohulls or decent catamarans. The other thing that has changed is that sailing such boats is no longer the challenge it was. Not only are the boats easier to sail physically but developments in weather forecasting and communications make avoiding adverse weather easier.

Where this is leading is that by the time you start planning seriously there will be different options available and maybe as many have suggested you spend the next few years getting some experience of sailing and living on the size and type of boat you might eventually choose. This is best done by taking a course (both of you) and getting the basics out of the way then chartering perhaps once a year in both monos and cats. To my mind this is a much better use of money than buying even a modest boat for use here. Even the simplest 30' boat costs around £4-5k a year to run once you include the costs of travelling to use it and that will buy you 2 weeks chartering.

I suspect you will also find that you need to consider which is more important - the journey or the destination. Getting a boat from here to Thailand under sail is a massive undertaking and is likely to take you 2-3 years if you want to "see" the places you stop at on the way. You then have the problem of what to with the boat at the end. You will have a big chunk of your assets tied up in the boat which you may not be able to turn back into cash easily. Lots of abandoned boats around the world where the owners have either not thought through the end game or circumstances (often health with retirees) change. Plenty to think about.

This is an excellent and accurate summary of how things are IMHO.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

I suspect that one of the key things you can take from this discussion is that there is no one way of planning and executing such a project. There are clear patterns of course as people tend to look at what others do successfully and follow the pattern. However change is constant and there are new patterns emerging all the time. For example 20 years ago your initial Red Sea route to the east would have been normal - there were even organized rallies to join. Then first piracy and the aftermath of the Iraq war started the slide to political instability and anything east and south of Cyprus became a no go area. Equally the Med in general was the top destination for many N Europeans, but for Brits now that is no longer attractive.

The N Atlantic run has always been popular for Europeans but it is no longer an "adventure" as it was 30 or 40 years ago and the combination of bigger and better boats and gear plus the developments in infrastructure partly around the charter industry has changed its nature. A few used to carry on through the Panama Canal to the Pacific but mainly for the islands (particularly for the French) or Australia and New Zealand. The area you are aiming for - Thailand and Malaysia is relatively new and more of a target for west coast USA or Australia and New Zealand. You only have to look at the brokers adverts for boats out there to see where they have come from.

The most fundamental change over the last 45 years or so that I have been involved with cruising boats has been the type of boat that people choose for their adventure. Boats were historically designed for sailing first and living accommodation was "fitted in". Now boats, both monohulls and particularly catamarans are designed from the inside out and then given acceptable sailing performance. There is no doubt about it that modern boats are superior for cruising and living aboard IF you want the comforts of modern living - recognising that for most cruisers the time spent at sea is a small proportion of the overall time spent on the boat. However to access modern boats of a decent size requires a budget greater than most "ordinary" people have - hence the current popularity of boats (mostly monohulls) around 20-40 years old that can be bought and prepared for a budget of £50-150k. Increase from the top end by another £100k then a whole new world opens up of either bigger newer monohulls or decent catamarans. The other thing that has changed is that sailing such boats is no longer the challenge it was. Not only are the boats easier to sail physically but developments in weather forecasting and communications make avoiding adverse weather easier.

Where this is leading is that by the time you start planning seriously there will be different options available and maybe as many have suggested you spend the next few years getting some experience of sailing and living on the size and type of boat you might eventually choose. This is best done by taking a course (both of you) and getting the basics out of the way then chartering perhaps once a year in both monos and cats. To my mind this is a much better use of money than buying even a modest boat for use here. Even the simplest 30' boat costs around £4-5k a year to run once you include the costs of travelling to use it and that will buy you 2 weeks chartering.

I suspect you will also find that you need to consider which is more important - the journey or the destination. Getting a boat from here to Thailand under sail is a massive undertaking and is likely to take you 2-3 years if you want to "see" the places you stop at on the way. You then have the problem of what to with the boat at the end. You will have a big chunk of your assets tied up in the boat which you may not be able to turn back into cash easily. Lots of abandoned boats around the world where the owners have either not thought through the end game or circumstances (often health with retirees) change. Plenty to think about.

Excellent write up!

I expect a good amount of change over the next 10 years, although I would imagine being able to buy a 2022 cat by that time which would hopefully be within budget at that point, maybe some upgrades. who knows what the market will be like.

My plan is definitely to get experience over summers doing some courses and chartering as opposed to buying an interim boat with all its associated costs (as much as id like a weekend toy) especially as we spend our summers in Thailand and i just struggle with putting 5k+ into something after tax when i can put a lot more into my pension before tax.

We will be definitely looking at living onboard full time and seeing as much as we can along the way so there will be no rush to get the SE Asia, it's just where we have family and will ultimately end up there regardless.

But yes plenty to think about

 

[Hooligan]

This is an excellent and accurate summary of how things are IMHO.

Totally agree. I started seriously boating later in life ie in my 50s although I have been around boats most of my life. We had plenty of boat trips with the family either with friends with their own boats or chartering with a skipper. This gave me an appreciation of first the stress involved in being responsible for not only a boat and all its workings but also the fact that you have responsibility for everyone on the boat - do not underestimate the stress at times, and secondly how the family dealt with being on a boat especially when the proverbial hits the fan. When I knew I wanted to give it a go and plough my money into a bottomless hole, I chartered a boat and asked the skipper to let me do it but monitor me and give advice. I then took the plunge. For the first year I made so many stupid rookie errors it seems laughable now. But I learned and more importantly I enjoyed the learning experience. My takeaways would be: you have to love the responsibility. If you are going to be on anchor all the time you need to know that sleep will never quite be the same. You need to enjoy the unexpected. Take baby steps at first and ease into it. Have a plan but be willing to change it almost as soon as you have made the plan. Understand what is important for you. Aircon or no aircon, space limited space etc etc. The only right answer to this is what you want and can afford not the opinions of others. Personally if I were you I would spend every holiday for the next 5 years chartering a boat with a skipper at first and then bareboat as you get more comfortable. Then you will know what works for you and does not work for you. Finally it is great to dream. Life would be worthless without dreams. If your dream materialises then how great is that. If it doesn’t then you have lost nothing. Good luck with your dream however it works out.

 

[Bajansailor]

Re trawler yachts, I saw a comment much earlier that talked about gallons per mile - this is a bit pessimistic really.
I met this Nordhavn 46 here some years ago, after they had crossed the Atlantic and I think they were able to achieve around 3 miles per gallon at their cruising speed, maybe even closer to 4 mpg.
Ship STARLET (Pleasure Craft) Registered in USA - Vessel details, Current position and Voyage information - IMO 0, MMSI 367470230, Call sign WDF6062
They had started off from the Eastern Seaboard of the USA, crossed the North Atlantic to Europe, spent years pottering around there, then out to the Caribbean, through Panama and across the Pacific. After about 15 years of living on board they shipped the boat back to the USA from Australia and sold her.

Here is a fairly typical Nordhavn 46 for sale -
https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-nordhavn-46-9101049/

I am simply mentioning Starlet as a good example of a trawler that has gone a long way without fanfare - I would generally agree though with most of the folk above who are suggesting a sailboat instead.
The important thing to do first is to see if you like sailing..... try a charter holiday on a monohull, and the same on a catamaran and compare the differences.