Whilst walking in the marina I saw these 2 horrors

RunAgroundHard said:
I am struggling to remember, and may be wrong, but the RYA used to teach round turn, two figure of eights, then round turn, then changed to the OXO cleat hitch, probably as boat designs modernised and cleats changed.
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Google suggests the OXO and the cleat hitch are two different knots. The cleat hitch always features a locking hitch.

I honestly don't think I've ever seen OXOs holding an unattended boat in a marina and I'm sure almost everyone jazzes up the cleat hitch to their own taste and circumstances when used for mooring.
 
All this talk of OXO on cleats. What’s wrong with the classic half-double-granny with two quadruple reef knots? If I want extra security I then take the line end to someone else’s boat and repeat the knot on one of their foredeck cleats. That way, you have someone else keeping a watch on your boat as well.
 
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fredrussell said:
All this talk of OXO on cleats. What’s wrong with the classic half-double-granny with two quadruple reef knots? If I want extra security I then take the line end to someone else’s boat and repeat the knot on one of their foredeck cleats.
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Quite right - if you don't know the knot, knot a lot 👍
 
Snowgoose-1 said:
Before the Internet "Find out by doing" was a popular maxim and possibly also a proverb to live by .

Unfortunately , as there is so much information about these days, I have less excuses for my cock up"s . I suppose I could claim conflicting professional advice
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I think it still is (a good maxim). It's just that You Tube lets you mess with stuff you would never have tried otherwise. A bit like a Haynes manual.

Always room to experiment. But I hope no-one catches me on You Tube when it goes wrong!
 
jbweston said:
Me too. I nearly always use one.

The almost superstitious avoiding of them is (I think) a throwback to the days of natural fibre ropes where shrinkage of the half hitch made it difficult to undo and was inconvenient or even dangerous. Like a lot of things 'always done that way' the fear of locking turns has persisted after the reason for avoiding them has disappeared.

I do insist on that the locking hitch is done the right way though. Also a locking hitch applied as a substitute for enough line round the cleat is a serious no-no. The locking turn isn't there to take the load but simply as a way of keeping the bitter end neat and secure.

I've no grumble with skippers who don't allow them. Like many things on a boat variety is fine and so much better than feeling we're being examined to qualify as instructors in the Taliban Sailing Club.
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This dogmatism for or against locking turns is a symptom of what seems to be an increasing desire for binary answers for everything and an intolerance of nuance. With respect to locking turns - If the bad outcome you want to avoid is the line slipping off the cleat, then use a locking turn. If it would really be a disaster if the line became jammed on the cleat then avoid a locking turn. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter.
 
On my Day Skipper course, around 25 years ago, I was taught to OXX and finish with a locking turn, as this was the accepted way to do it, but a few years later, the RYA changed their recommendations to OXXO. I did the same, and have never had any issues. I will use a lock if the line's too short, so it's more like OXXU, though, but only while I'm sorting a longer one
 
Stemar said:
On my Day Skipper course, around 25 years ago, I was taught to OXX and finish with a locking turn, as this was the accepted way to do it, but a few years later, the RYA changed their recommendations to OXXO. I did the same, and have never had any issues. I will use a lock if the line's too short, so it's more like OXXU, though, but only while I'm sorting a longer one
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Many decades ago I started using the OXXO as the initial O takes the strain on the cleat, the XX stops the line from slipping and the final O allows the line to be quickly released whilst under heavy load. I never lock any line off for this reason. No one ever taught me this, just worked it out from experience.
 
Concerto said:
Many decades ago I started using the OXXO as the initial O takes the strain on the cleat, the XX stops the line from slipping and the final O allows the line to be quickly released whilst under heavy load. I never lock any line off for this reason. No one ever taught me this, just worked it out from experience.
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Like you I was never taught but I always, and still do, start with OXX and then apply common sense depending on the situation.
 
Concerto said:
Many decades ago I started using the OXXO as the initial O takes the strain on the cleat, the XX stops the line from slipping and the final O allows the line to be quickly released whilst under heavy load. I never lock any line off for this reason. No one ever taught me this, just worked it out from experience.
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It was demonstrated to me during my Yachtmaster Instructor assessment as the most reliable and easy way to secure a yacht. Previously, like everyone else, I'd used a variety of different ways. As I mentioned before, can't see anything wrong however you do it as long as the boat stays tied up.

Since that time, I've always taught this very sensible way. But also that, as with absolutely everything in sailing, there are always plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat. In my opinion.
 
capnsensible said:
It was demonstrated to me during my Yachtmaster Instructor assessment as the most reliable and easy way to secure a yacht. Previously, like everyone else, I'd used a variety of different ways. As I mentioned before, can't see anything wrong however you do it as long as the boat stays tied up.

Since that time, I've always taught this very sensible way. But also that, as with absolutely everything in sailing, there are always plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat. In my opinion.
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There are, IMHO, three ways to tie off a cleat.

The right way, the wrong way and my way!
 
capnsensible said:
It was demonstrated to me during my Yachtmaster Instructor assessment as the most reliable and easy way to secure a yacht. Previously, like everyone else, I'd used a variety of different ways. As I mentioned before, can't see anything wrong however you do it as long as the boat stays tied up.

Since that time, I've always taught this very sensible way. But also that, as with absolutely everything in sailing, there are always plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cat. In my opinion.
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The only issues occur if you need to share cleats.
 
capnsensible said:
See #21. :)
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I always found that the "best way" for dock lines was a loop either bowline or spliced at the dock that way hopefully anyone that needed to share could use the tried and tested method of bringing their line up through the loop leaving you free to leave unhindered. It also means that any line left over can be left on board out of the way of others.
 
What annoys me when mooring, is someone taking my lines and telling ME how to tie up my boat.

When I assist others, I normally make the line fast with a 'you can now adjust / alter the lines to how you want them'. It's their boat ...

Years ago when I and a few other boats took inexperienced kids sailing, I showed them how to put a rope onto a cleat. I also told them that if they forgot how, to just wrap the rope round the cleat until cleat was full or the ran out of rope ! I would then supervise them them doing it correctly - my way !
 
NormanS said:
On the very occasional times that I pass a line to someone on the shore, it already has an eye on it, and it's followed by a clear request to put it "There".
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I do that but on one occasion the well intentioned helper just wouldn’t drop the bowline over the cleat but insisted on pulling. The bitter end was coiled around the genoa winch pending me pulling on it, instead the helper pulled it off the winch then he had both ends on the pontoon. Thereafter it went seriously to rats……..
 
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