Novice "yachtist" considering life's options

[mrtoomanytoys]

Hi.
I have been having a wander around here and it's amazing the wealth of info and advice.. I wasn't sure where to post, but this section seems the most logical..
So here goes.
I shall be 58 this year, still have my health (if a little podgy), very practical and capable of fixing most things (pharma engineering for work and petrol head)
Life really hasn't gone where I hoped and I find myself without too many assets (no property).. spent far too much effort and time trying to save a relationship, by myself....!
So very much single and trying to enjoy life..

I have spent a good bit of time round Europe working (most of last 25 years), and adventuring motorcycling, 4x4 etc..
A friend suggested 3 or 4 years ago about living on a boat.. we looked at a couple (ex pilot boat that had 2 dirty great Cummins v8's (tempting but impractical) etc..
So it's been in the back of my mind ever since.

It's all come to the front again as I am trying to work out what to do for the next stage of life..

So.. a suggestion was a Yacht, 36' ish, live on much of the year, work away to put money in the pot a few months of year..
Fuel costs would be low, no rush to be anywhere..
Am I completely mad???

More to add, but this kicks off the thoughts..
Cheers
Si

 

[mrtoomanytoys]

Budget would be in the 20-25k region for a fairly well sorted boat (this looks entirely possible from what I have seen) with a contingency to replace/refurb any of the essential hull fittings, safety gear etc..

Obviously I would be considering habitation equipment too, but seems to be a fair few boats that have had plenty spent on habitation equipment replacement/upgrades..

Of course.. my biggest concern is me!
I have zero sailing experience.. the grey matter isn't what it used to be, but still capable of learning, but as with most things, experience is valuable and that takes time...

 

[Tranona]

Not completely mad, but not as easy as it might appear. First, boats of this size are not designed for permanent living aboard. Lack of space, difficulty in keeping warm or cool and full of equipment that is made for occasional rather than continuous use. Next, in the UK very few places where you can keep a boat for permanent living, particularly if you want to live a life in the "normal" world, both social and work.

In the past (nostalgia?) many people overcame these constraints by moving to Europe where the climate allowed more "outside" living and plenty of places to keep a liveaboard boat both tied up or at anchor - it was "cheap" as well. Those days have largely gone as post Brexit non EU citizens can no longer roam or work freely in the EU and cheap has gone forever.

While wealthy retirees might be able to cope with these constraints, for example by buying a boat capable of ocean cruising rather than Med pottering or younger people can take a career break to go off adventuring, the ordinary person's opportunities are now very limited,

To add after your second post. Sailing is relatively easy, although being comfortable with life afloat is not so easy to predict. Yes you can buy "banger" type boats for that sort of money, but you are buying the fag end of their economic life. Maintenance replacement and running costs are related to boats with 10 times the value. Even with a reasonable condition boat at £20k you can easily spend the same again to get it to a level suitable for passage making. OK if you want to live up a tidal creek in the back of beyond and never go anywhere. That is where you will find a lot of abandoned projects that started in the same way as you are thinking.

This is not to say it is impossible to start from this low level of budget, knowledge and expertise - just extremely difficult. Once you have your boat you are committed to a high level of ongoing expense - mooring, insurance and maintenance that does not go away until you are lucky enough to sell to the next dreamer for a fraction of what you paid.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Perhaps the best option is an inland waterways barge although the £25K might be a bit limiting

 

[potentillaCO32]

I think the UK climate makes it very difficult in winter if a boat hasn't been designed for winter living or modified. Damp, condensation, mould etc make life hard. On a 36 foot boat you would want to be in a marina with shore power and showers. Or I would. The aren't a huge number of marinas that allowliveaboards

 

[mrtoomanytoys]

Ok.. Thank you.
Some clarification perhaps
No.. I am under no illusion this is going to be easy and simple or particularly cheap...

River boating.. no, defeats the point and I have a little experience of what a wide beam costs to own and live on.. (it ain't cheap by any means). Does not appeal.

The plan would be to out and sailing to fresh views when not working, rather than sitting/living in a marina for 6-8 months..
Initially it would be UK waters, with the view to head further afield once confidence and skills have risen.. yes, some marina time would be needed... Mostly for "parking" initially and weekends while I build up funds and skills to enable travel..

Space..
Due to "life"... I have lived in a touring caravan and mobile homes for quite some time on occasions. I have a VW camper which is small, I have travelled and camped on motorbikes a lot in my life, so I do have an appreciation of limited space etc..

My original thought was to build a 4x4 over landing truck, but the investment in £, but worse still, time, would eat up a lot of what's left.. it also has big running cost and "where to park" issues amongst many other things..

It's all research and investigation, food for thought.. to weigh up the pros and cons of all options.. To understand the implications of what I would be taking on rather than jumping head first into the unknown..

All good info and thoughts for sure.. better to be armed with information rather than ignorance..

 

[greeny]

Not completely mad, but not as easy as it might appear. First, boats of this size are not designed for permanent living aboard. Lack of space, difficulty in keeping warm or cool and full of equipment that is made for occasional rather than continuous use. Next, in the UK very few places where you can keep a boat for permanent living, particularly if you want to live a life in the "normal" world, both social and work.

In the past (nostalgia?) many people overcame these constraints by moving to Europe where the climate allowed more "outside" living and plenty of places to keep a liveaboard boat both tied up or at anchor - it was "cheap" as well. Those days have largely gone as post Brexit non EU citizens can no longer roam or work freely in the EU and cheap has gone forever.

While wealthy retirees might be able to cope with these constraints, for example by buying a boat capable of ocean cruising rather than Med pottering or younger people can take a career break to go off adventuring, the ordinary person's opportunities are now very limited,

To add after your second post. Sailing is relatively easy, although being comfortable with life afloat is not so easy to predict. Yes you can buy "banger" type boats for that sort of money, but you are buying the fag end of their economic life. Maintenance replacement and running costs are related to boats with 10 times the value. Even with a reasonable condition boat at £20k you can easily spend the same again to get it to a level suitable for passage making. OK if you want to live up a tidal creek in the back of beyond and never go anywhere. That is where you will find a lot of abandoned projects that started in the same way as you are thinking.

This is not to say it is impossible to start from this low level of budget, knowledge and expertise - just extremely difficult. Once you have your boat you are committed to a high level of ongoing expense - mooring, insurance and maintenance that does not go away until you are lucky enough to sell to the next dreamer for a fraction of what you paid.

Spot on!

 

[potentillaCO32]

Ok.. Thank you.
Some clarification perhaps
No.. I am under no illusion this is going to be easy and simple or particularly cheap...

River boating.. no, defeats the point and I have a little experience of what a wide beam costs to own and live on.. (it ain't cheap by any means). Does not appeal.

The plan would be to out and sailing to fresh views when not working, rather than sitting/living in a marina for 6-8 months..
Initially it would be UK waters, with the view to head further afield once confidence and skills have risen.. yes, some marina time would be needed... Mostly for "parking" initially and weekends while I build up funds and skills to enable travel..

Space..
Due to "life"... I have lived in a touring caravan and mobile homes for quite some time on occasions. I have a VW camper which is small, I have travelled and camped on motorbikes a lot in my life, so I do have an appreciation of limited space etc..

My original thought was to build a 4x4 over landing truck, but the investment in £, but worse still, time, would eat up a lot of what's left.. it also has big running cost and "where to park" issues amongst many other things..

It's all research and investigation, food for thought.. to weigh up the pros and cons of all options.. To understand the implications of what I would be taking on rather than jumping head first into the unknown..

All good info and thoughts for sure.. better to be armed with information rather than ignorance..

Go and look at the 'sailing cadoha' youtube channel.
Hugely simplifying this but they bought a 38 foot boat, with little sailing experience, with the intention of sailing round the world- if you watch the early videos.
Reality hit when it was obvious that they suffered from seasickness so they changed their views to anchoring and sailing round a small part of the UK coast. The realities of damp uk winters of a boat hit home causing health issues.

Their videos do show how it is not as easy as you imagine living on a uk winter boat.

 

[ylop]

No.. I am under no illusion this is going to be easy and simple or particularly cheap...

Good because I think Tranona summed it up! One day you will presumably be too old (or the boat too tired) for the nomadic lifestyle. Everyone your age I hear seriously considering your sort of adventure has either property or a next egg to fall back on. Where do you go at 68 or 78 when you decide you've had enough? Expensive private rental? I'm not sure how local authority housing works but I expect you can't just pick a new area and get far up their waiting list.

River boating.. no, defeats the point and I have a little experience of what a wide beam costs to own and live on.. (it ain't cheap by any means). Does not appeal.

The plan would be to out and sailing to fresh views when not working, rather than sitting/living in a marina for 6-8 months..

I'm not trying to tell you you are wrong - but IF I was single, looking to live on a boat, work ad hoc, move around to new places then a narrowboat on a continuous cruising basis (move the boat at least every 14 days) would have a lot of appeal. Its not the sea, and doesn't have sails but they might be more suitable for living aboard than many yachts of similar cost.

Initially it would be UK waters, with the view to head further afield once confidence and skills have risen.. yes, some marina time would be needed... Mostly for "parking" initially and weekends while I build up funds and skills to enable travel..

The irony is that the UK waters require, to some extent, more skills than the med. Traffic is busy in the Solent, tides are fairly significant everywhere, wind and waves can be more extreme...

Due to "life"... I have lived in a touring caravan and mobile homes for quite some time on occasions. I have a VW camper which is small, I have travelled and camped on motorbikes a lot in my life, so I do have an appreciation of limited space etc..

That's good BUT you could open a door and walk about outside. You can do that when you are in a marina too - but the romanticism (or cost-effectiveness) of a mooring or anchorage doesn't always balance well against having to row to shore, walk to shop, row back just to get a pint of milk.

Sailing is not "hard" but to reach a basic level of competence from no prior experience would take you 3 weeks of training. (Competent Crew (5 days) - Day Skipper Theory (5 days) - VHF Cert (1 day) - Day Skipper Practical (5 days)). None of that is essential but you are very unlikely to get to that level of competence any quicker AND that is to get to the basic standard.

The real issue is that living aboard is time-consuming - everything needs much more planning than living in a house in the modern world. You'll have experienced this in Caravan's etc, but you did have a car (I presume) - which is another headache for liveaboard nomadic lifestyle -

 

[mrtoomanytoys]

Indeed.. I shall have a ganders at that channel.
Likelihood is, winter months I would be working away anyway (so living in hotels/Airbnb/house share etc. There are limited pharma companies on the coasts, anywhere.. there would be a balance.. unless I happen to have sailed to somewhere warmer..
I have spent several winters in caravans etc, so it's something I have an awareness of and don't take lightly..

 

[Fr J Hackett]

No one has mentioned the other logistical aspect that rears it's head when you have no fixed land based address, banks, GPs, insurance etc.

 

[Wansworth]

Look at motor sailers with a wheelhouse,32 footer pleanty for a single person

 

[GEM43]

This seems to be an overwhelmingly negative response. TooManyToys seems to have a good idea of what he’s getting in to. If one has the wherewithal to feed the electricity meter for heat/dehumidifier and for marina fees then I reckon a comfortable life can be had for the determined liveaboard practical type wannabe yottie.

 

[Wansworth]

This seems to be an overwhelmingly negative response. TooManyToys seems to have a good idea of what he’s getting in to. If one has the wherewithal to feed the electricity meter for heat/dehumidifier and for marina fees then I reckon a comfortable life can be had for the determined liveaboard practical type wannabe yottie.

Or if he likes wildlife and birds there’s many a creek to anchour up in with thecoal fire blazing …..just harbour dues,somewhere like Chichester has showers in the harbour office and the occasional night in a marina means laundry can be done and a bit of socializing….

 

[Tranona]

This seems to be an overwhelmingly negative response. TooManyToys seems to have a good idea of what he’s getting in to. If one has the wherewithal to feed the electricity meter for heat/dehumidifier and for marina fees then I reckon a comfortable life can be had for the determined liveaboard practical type wannabe yottie.

He does not seem to want to be a marina based liveaboard but a cruising nomad. Either way it is not an easy life now with limited if any choice of marinas that will accept permanent liveaboards and now limited places apart from the UK where one can roam freely.

 

[KevinV]

I'm a sailor, but I'd seriously consider a displacement motor boat for what you want to do - everything on board is within your skill set, you get lots more (and lighter) living space for your money and fuel costs will be easily offset against the maintenance and replacement cost of rigging, sails, winches, running rigging, etc.
Get something that'll dry out flat and there's a huge amount of places you can discover. Despite doing it for the love of sailing and adventure almost all liveaboards do vastly more sitting still in nice places than actual sailing.

 

[Tranona]

Indeed.. I shall have a ganders at that channel.
Likelihood is, winter months I would be working away anyway (so living in hotels/Airbnb/house share etc. There are limited pharma companies on the coasts, anywhere.. there would be a balance.. unless I happen to have sailed to somewhere warmer..
I have spent several winters in caravans etc, so it's something I have an awareness of and don't take lightly..

OK so the living in confined spaces is less of an issue so maybe concentrate on finding out whether you like sailing. The advice in post#9 is sound - do a couple of sailing courses to learn the basics. Schools tend to use boats around the size you are considering although more modern than your budget allows. Good fun and if you don't like it you have avoided getting into a money pit of buying a boat.

The way you have described your pattern of living suggests getting a smaller boat that is fully functioning and giving it a go for a couple of years. You can get a good 6 months summer sailing and if based on the south coast there is plenty of variety doing day sails up and down the coast. Lots of places where you can anchor safely and maybe go into a marina once a week for provisions etc. Then take a winter berthing contract where you can come and go for your work elsewhere.

This type of boat is a good start apolloduck.co.uk/boat/westerly-longbow-for-sale/782052 small enough to be easy to single hand but big enough to be comfortable both at sea and in harbour. This example looks good with lots of recent expensive gear and the all important good modern engine. These are popular with budget liveaboards because they are simple and robust. Being located in Shetland is a mixed blessing - long way to go but if you are determined a great start to learning about cruising if you engage a professional for a couple of weeks to help you bring it further south.

 

[PlanB]

I lived aboard a mobo in a marina (Spain) for 12 years. Part of the joy of the lifestyle was the social life. When I sold up, there was one liveaboard left.
Do consider how important regular human contact is for you.
Also, as mentioned above, consider whether you will have a permanent address (even if not yours) for the official stuff.

 

[Graham376]

Of course.. my biggest concern is me!
I have zero sailing experience.. the grey matter isn't what it used to be, but still capable of learning, but as with most things, experience is valuable and that takes time...

Getting experience can be easy if you're willing to pay for it.

When I decided to sample sailing 30+ years ago with no experience, I did a 5 day competent crew course in the Solent and got the bug. When doing that very basic course, other more experienced crew members on the boat were doing more advanced courses so I was given lots of advice about suitable "starter" boats and sailing in general.

Bought a small boat, a Westerly Centaur, and got some on-board practical tuition around the Solent with an instructor and did Day Skipper Theory. The Day Skipper practical course was on the delivery trip (just instructor and me) from Solent to N Wales. Progressed from then on with larger boats and greater distances, now based in Portugal.

 

[Thresher]

OK so the living in confined spaces is less of an issue so maybe concentrate on finding out whether you like sailing. The advice in post#9 is sound - do a couple of sailing courses to learn the basics. Schools tend to use boats around the size you are considering although more modern than your budget allows. Good fun and if you don't like it you have avoided getting into a money pit of buying a boat.

The way you have described your pattern of living suggests getting a smaller boat that is fully functioning and giving it a go for a couple of years. You can get a good 6 months summer sailing and if based on the south coast there is plenty of variety doing day sails up and down the coast. Lots of places where you can anchor safely and maybe go into a marina once a week for provisions etc. Then take a winter berthing contract where you can come and go for your work elsewhere.

This type of boat is a good start apolloduck.co.uk/boat/westerly-longbow-for-sale/782052 small enough to be easy to single hand but big enough to be comfortable both at sea and in harbour. This example looks good with lots of recent expensive gear and the all important good modern engine. These are popular with budget liveaboards because they are simple and robust. Being located in Shetland is a mixed blessing - long way to go but if you are determined a great start to learning about cruising if you engage a professional for a couple of weeks to help you bring it further south.

I agree with Tranona, start small and you will have less to lose if you change your mind. In my opinion a 27 foot boat is enough for a solo liveaboard.