Panic! Do I need a courtesy flag for Wales?

[Ru88ell]

Ironically, they covered this area last night on Coast including talk on Harlech and Criccieth castles, English kings looking to take over the Welsh in the mountains. It was good stuff.

I didn't expect to kick off the argument again, I only posted a link to a video.

 

[alant]

Haven't you noticed? Whenever the Welsh come to Twickenham, they bring their own courtesy flags....

Trust me, when Wales are at Twickers, its nothing to do with courtesy!

 

[alant]

sorry but this makes no sense, you already wear the BRITISH ensign on your boat and as you are still in BRITISH waters there is no requirement to wear anything else.

An ensign has nothing to do with a courtesy flag!

 

[alant]

What about "because it's their first language" or "because it's how they communicate at other times" or "because it's a Welsh-speaking area"? Mind you, the boss doesn't exactly sound worthy of any respect.[/QUOTE]

Exactly, its their first language!

Would they expect a Geordie to start speaking English, should one enter a room?

 

[alant]

Tend to agree and am sure that welsh and scottish visitors to England would be just as polite and fly the Flag of St George

And get abused as racists?

No thanks!

That flag has been abused enough.

 

[alant]

You are probably right Maxi. But can you imagine what you would feel if you were the boss and your staff were chatting away and laughing in a language you didnt speak. All to easy to completely undermine someone in a way he cannot respond to.

Half the UK Hotels & eateries wouldn't operate if you stopped the staff speaking Polish amoungst themselves!

 

[alant]

As a county councillor, I was told by a Welsh language supporting officer that 20% of the population of Wales was first language Welsh speakers and that in Denbighshire the figure was 22%. I set up a call centre as first point of contact for residents. The first answer message was "Push one for Welsh, two for English" (In Welsh as the first part)
We found out that just 8% of callers elected to speak Welsh. A very unscientific stat gatherer but I suspect a true one. Also my suspicions are that that figure is true across all of Wales as an average.
Stu

That's because they assumed the call centre was in India surely!

 

[alant]

Many years ago ( 39 to be precise) I worked for auctioneers in the cattle market at Market Harborough. The Welland Valley was excellent grazing and the Welsh Hill farmers came to take grazing land to fatten their Welsh Black cattle for the summer.

All the Welsh farmers I met changed from Welsh to speaking English when we joined them, rather than the image given of the other way round. Gentlemen to a man.

As part of the UK, I wouldn't expect to have to wear a courtesy flag, but would be happy to do so out of friendship.

Long live the Union.

Wales is not in the "Union", check the Union flag!

Its a Principality, we were tricked into accepting.
never trusted the English since - perfidious barstewards.

 

[Heckler]

What about "because it's their first language" or "because it's how they communicate at other times" or "because it's a Welsh-speaking area"? Mind you, the boss doesn't exactly sound worthy of any respect.

Exactly, its their first language!

Would they expect a Geordie to start speaking English, should one enter a room? [/QUOTE]
Ahh but my point is that on average it is not a first language for the majority. Also the old wives tale about them switching to Welsh when a Saesneg enters the pub, its a load of bollo x. If they do speak Welsh as a first language they will be speaking it all the time.
Stu

 

[Heckler]

That's because they assumed the call centre was in India surely!

When the answer is by a Welsh girl speaking Welsh? I think not! Try dialling 01824 706000
Stu

 

[alant]

When the answer is by a Welsh girl speaking Welsh? I think not! Try dialling 01824 706000
Stu

So, was the option for English or Welsh, only given by a Welsh speaking girl then?

No wonder they got confused!

 

[jordanbasset]

And get abused as racists?

No thanks!

That flag has been abused enough.

Perhaps I am a bit thick, not sure I understand how flying the flag of St George makes you racist. Yes in the past it has been abused by idiots, as has the union flag and others across the world. But are you saying we should capitulate to these idiots and not be allowed to fly this particular flag, if so I disagree.
If you are worried about being labelled a racist because you fly it would suggest that is more to do with the small minded prejudices of the people holding those views than anything else. I for one would not be bullied into not flying the flag of St George when appropriate. If in Wales would also have no problem flying the Ddraig Goch.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Perhaps I am a bit thick, not sure I understand how flying the flag of St George makes you racist.

It's a great shame, but the St George's Cross was for too long the preserve of the BNP, the League of St George, people from exclusive gated communities in the Chilterns and other racist low life. As a Scot who has always flown a Scottish ensign I am really glad to see normal English people seem to have reclaimed it pretty effectively, and I think the only significant bad association now is with stupidity - and that's only if you need "England" written across the middle of the flag!

 

[jordanbasset]

It's a great shame, but the St George's Cross was for too long the preserve of the BNP, the League of St George, people from exclusive gated communities in the Chilterns and other racist low life. As a Scot who has always flown a Scottish ensign I am really glad to see normal English people seem to have reclaimed it pretty effectively, and I think the only significant bad association now is with stupidity - and that's only if you need "England" written across the middle of the flag!

Agree with that

 

[MacMan]

Many English people insist that 'they were all speaking English when I entered the shop/pub/restaurant/chipshop etc but changed to Welsh when they saw me' but this is baloney. They speak Welsh all the time!

Sorry Vyv but this really does happen. I have loads of Welsh friends and have no axe to grind - the South Welsh (in general) are much more naturally friendly but I once lived in Chester and often went for days out in North Wales and in *many cases* experienced the "they were speaking English we went went into their pub/cafe/shop but switched to Welsh when I and various friends entered scenario. It really does happen.Even when you are about to spend money in their business.

Once I was with a Welsh friend, who spoke fairly fluent Welsh and this happened and she had a go at the them in Welsh - most amusing.

I have never had this happen in South Wales - or indeed anywhere else in the world. In fact the opposite - I work with a lot of Indians in England - they often have social conversations in various languages and as I walk in switch to English so as not to exclude me.

Sorry if you just don't believe this happens - but it does.

 

[bluedragon]

Sorry guys...can't be bothered to read all the posts, and maybe this was a troll anyway...

But, it never does any harm to fly a courtesy flag in the Celtic nations...I fly one in Cornwall. Most locals probably don't care one way or the other, but it's always a nice touch. It can't offend anyone, but neither does the lack of one either IMO.

 

[Kawasaki]

Should I get a Welsh dragon courtesy flag for my week in Porthmadog? They're not into burning boats are they?

You will enjoy your week in Porthmadoc
The Yacht Club is great
By all means fly a Ddraig Goch, it's a pretty rag!
As we all know it ain't necessary but heck why not?
Blimey, I must return there, just remembered, I left the spare set of keys to me boat behind the Bar.
Dunno why that was, could have been summatt to do with the great hospitality I received or maybe I didn't settle me bar bill!
Talking about bars
The sands in the entrance to the harbour are 'shifty' and the bouys tell lies
There are Sand Dragons there that alter the entrance regularly.
You may be 'captured' by them.
You may be trapped and have to stay longer than you thought!
But that will be no hardship
Hardship aground or not
There will be no language problem.
But you must learn the Welsh phrase for
'Kinnel, it's not My round again is it'?

This 'they were talking in English but turned to Welsh' thing has been debated here before.
I have lived in North Wales for 60 odd years (well some years were fairly normal but mostly odd!) and speak the language.
Not very well but neither is me English!
Cos I was born at the East end (Rhyl) I sound more like a Scouser
So first impressions for peeps are that I am English (kinda) and obviously I have wandered into a few Pubs from time to time and the 'clients' have been talking English
Yep, sometimes after orderin me half of Mild, said Peeps revert to Welsh

Having heard My my perfect English accent
Cymraeg is then the Tongue
So then I lob a few Cymraeg bits in and the mood relaxes
This is cos a lot of Locals do struggle with English (bleedin hard lingo!) in front of English peeps!!!

OK, there are some daft ignorant die hards, for want of a better phrase.
But that is Universal throughout the Globe.
Last year we (the family) went for Lunch in a remote 'Welshness' of places.
As I stood in the car park sharing a fag break with a Local, we chatted laboriously in English for a few minutes.
He noticed something in me speak!
'Cymraeg dach I' ? He said.
'Ie' I replied in Cymraeg
'Bleedin eck' He replied in Cymraeg!!
I dunno how to put this next 'translation' directly into English.
But His Cymraeg reply went something like this.
'You have sucked all the English in me today!'

In other words
Mostly English!

He had struggled to communicate and really tell me what he was thinking etc.
The conversation was about His Family and Ancestors and how they used to farm the area etc etc etc etc
There were lots of etc's when we started our native tongue flowing!
Me Man was more comfy like innit, speakin his native spoke
But I had to leave the Chat fer another day
It was my bleedin round again
So watch it in Wales and specifically Porthmadoc Yacht Club
Even if yer flies the Ddraig Goch
The beggars will prize open yer wallet, Euros, Dollars, Sterling?
Kinnel-- they'l even take Pesatas and use em to nick shoppin trolleys and sell em to Scousers to chuck in the Mersey
Enjoy the Principality
Cymru am Byth!

 

[Ru88ell]

You will enjoy your week in Porthmadoc
The Yacht Club is great
By all means fly a Ddraig Goch, it's a pretty rag!
<snip>

Hi Kawasaki

I had a great time and will definitely go back for more. The harbour was lovely and the club very welcoming. I did fly a Ddraig Goch too as you'll in my video.

I navigated the channel a couple of times at low tide which was fun. I'm glad the plate lifts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0AL2OELa8

Russell

 

[Kawasaki]

Hi Kawasaki



I navigated the channel a couple of times at low tide which was fun. I'm glad the plate lifts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz0AL2OELa8

Russell

Fair Play to you Sir!
The only plates on me mobo are in the galley and they came flying past me ear ole when I ran aground, trying to push in half an hour after LWS

 

[Bosun Higgs]

It's a great shame, but the St George's Cross was for too long the preserve of the BNP, the League of St George, people from exclusive gated communities in the Chilterns and other racist low life. As a Scot who has always flown a Scottish ensign I am really glad to see normal English people seem to have reclaimed it pretty effectively, and I think the only significant bad association now is with stupidity - and that's only if you need "England" written across the middle of the flag!

Sorry geeky, but you are wrong. The st george flag is at best the sign of a chav and at worst a football supporter, but as an Englishman, I like telling scots that we have an english flag anyway ( the union flag) and an english anthem ( then national anthem) because really, the UK is just greater England.

Exploding sporrans as far as the eye can see.

But to be a bit more serious, I heartily support the drive to keep Welsh alive here in south wales. I like the welsh culture - and it is different to england or scotland ( or at least lowland scotland). And I have found the welsh nothing but friendly and welcoming in a way that I havent always found the scots. After 25 years I consider myself naturalised welsh, albeit not enough to try and learn what looks like an incomprehensible language.