Orca attack

[stranded]

Ok

Plus better at building depth charges.

Typical human dim wittedness - where are depth charges heading - hell - which is where all the humans will be - perfect allegory really.

 

[billskip]

..

I did read it

 

[Daydream believer]

I did read it

In hindsight it was childish & inappropriate

 

[Rappey]

British Marine members who wholesale or retail Anti Depredation Devices (ADD) / Pingers to UK registered recreational boat owners or crew are reminded to ensure the purchaser is made aware that it is presently illegal to use ADD / Pingers in the manner advertised whilst operating in Spanish waters.

Following several incidents involving British yachts and killer whales (Orcinus orca) on passage between the Straits of Gibraltar and Cape Finisterre in 2020 and 2021, a request for clarification of the legal protection of killer whales afforded by the Spanish Government was made by the RYA (Royal Yachting Association).

In response the Spanish Government’s Ministry for the Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge (MITECO) provided the following information.

"All cetaceans present in Spanish waters are protected by the Habitats Directive and by Law 42/2007, of December 13, on Natural Heritage and Biodiversity,” which “forbids any action carried out with the purpose of killing, capturing, persecuting or disturbing them.”

MITECO additionally stated “Furthermore, the approach by boat to cetaceans is regulated by Royal Decree 1727/2007, of December 21, which establishes measures for the protection of cetaceans. In its article 4, this royal decree lists several actions that are considered to be able to harm, annoy or disturb cetaceans, so they are forbidden.”

Article 4 of the Royal Decree 1727/2007 states that it is illegal to “Produce noises and loud or shrill sounds to try to attract them or drive them away, including the emission of sounds underwater”.

MITECO also indicated that, under Spanish legislation “using an engine and propeller to reverse a boat towards an orca, the use of “noise makers”, “pingers” Acoustic Deterrent Devices (ADD) attached to boats, and throwing of pyrotechnics, flares, etc at approaching whales, are forbidden by Spanish law

 

[sailaboutvic]

British Marine members who wholesale or retail Anti Depredation Devices (ADD) / Pingers to UK registered recreational boat owners or crew are reminded to ensure the purchaser is made aware that it is presently illegal to use ADD / Pingers in the manner advertised whilst operating in Spanish waters.

Following several incidents involving British yachts and killer whales (Orcinus orca) on passage between the Straits of Gibraltar and Cape Finisterre in 2020 and 2021, a request for clarification of the legal protection of killer whales afforded by the Spanish Government was made by the RYA (Royal Yachting Association).

In response the Spanish Government’s Ministry for the Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge (MITECO) provided the following information.

"All cetaceans present in Spanish waters are protected by the Habitats Directive and by Law 42/2007, of December 13, on Natural Heritage and Biodiversity,” which “forbids any action carried out with the purpose of killing, capturing, persecuting or disturbing them.”

MITECO additionally stated “Furthermore, the approach by boat to cetaceans is regulated by Royal Decree 1727/2007, of December 21, which establishes measures for the protection of cetaceans. In its article 4, this royal decree lists several actions that are considered to be able to harm, annoy or disturb cetaceans, so they are forbidden.”

Article 4 of the Royal Decree 1727/2007 states that it is illegal to “Produce noises and loud or shrill sounds to try to attract them or drive them away, including the emission of sounds underwater”.

MITECO also indicated that, under Spanish legislation “using an engine and propeller to reverse a boat towards an orca, the use of “noise makers”, “pingers” Acoustic Deterrent Devices (ADD) attached to boats, and throwing of pyrotechnics, flares, etc at approaching whales, are forbidden by Spanish law

I some how don't think any skipper who having the boat ripped apart is going to give two penny what Spanish law is. To top that being miles out at sea with no one in sight who going to know what being used.
It's really hard in one way I all for not harming them but I would not hesitate for one min to protect my crew and my yacht if there was any chance of being attacked with what ever means I had at the time.
Forget what gets written here , when the brown stuff hits the fan , I think most would do the same .

 

[Rappey]

Sounds like a wise idea to attack the orca, just before you end up in the water with them ?

 

[stranded]

I some how don't think any skipper who having the boat ripped apart is going to give two penny what Spanish law is. To top that being miles out at sea with no one in sight who going to know what being used.

It's really hard in one way I all for not harming them but I would not hesitate for one min to protect my crew and my yacht if there was any chance of being attacked with what ever means I had at the time.
Forget what gets written here , when the brown stuff hits the fan , I

+ Spanish law provides a self-defence justification or excuse (in the event that the feared aggression was reasonably even if mistakenly anticipated) for killing a human. It would seem odd if such a principle did not extend to chucking a banger at an orca.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It seems the prudent thing to do is buy a couple of acoustic devices have a few buckets of sand in the cockpit and some big thunder flash type fireworks ( I think these would be most effective if they were able to explode sub surface) I would add some netting with peripheral weights to my armoury also and the idea of going int reverse if conditions were favourable.
Should harpoons with and exploding head become available at a reasonable price then several of these could come in useful.

 

[sailaboutvic]

My first port of call would be use the going astern as fast as I could while using min hands on the wheel just in case its ripped from me .
If that didn't work I then use what ever I had be it pingers or anything I had on board , at a last resort even hanging a anchor and chain over the back , giventhem some thing to navigate around before biting the rudder .

WHAT I wouldnt do is stop and lie still in the water and hope for the best as it been suggested by the so call experts, I guess the reason for them suggesting it has nothing to do with the attack stopping more to do with you might cause Injury to the Orcas.
It's also been suggest lately by a sailing organisation to carry sand ,
I'm quite gob smack which make me think these people have never sailed boats or know little about them .
So how much sand are we expect to carry ? A bag ? Three ? Maybe a ton . You would need to drop a lot of sand in one go to make a difference especially in any seas .
Where do this come from?
I not heard of and boat that's done this and it's worked .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Sounds like a wise idea to attack the orca, just before you end up in the water with them ?

I'm not talking about attack them ,
Stopping an attack or reducing it .
It's not going to make much any difference if at the of the day your going to end up in tge water anyway ,

 

[Fr J Hackett]

My first port of call would be use the going astern as fast as I could while using min hands on the wheel just in case its ripped from me .
If that didn't work I then use what ever I had be it pingers or anything I had on board , at a last resort even hanging a anchor and chain over the back , giventhem some thing to navigate around before biting the rudder .

WHAT I wouldnt do is stop and lie still in the water and hope for the best as it been suggested by the so call experts, I guess the reason for them suggesting it has nothing to do with the attack stopping more to do with you might cause Injury to the Orcas.
It's also been suggest lately by a sailing organisation to carry sand ,
I'm quite gob smack which make me think these people have never sailed boats or know little about them .
So how much sand are we expect to carry ? A bag ? Three ? Maybe a ton . You would need to drop a lot of sand in one go to make a difference especially in any seas .
Where do this come from?
I not heard of and boat that's done this and it's worked .

I think the point about how much sand is relevant but I could see a bucketful dropped directly into the path od an incoming Orca as being a deterrent, I doubt they will like it in the pathways and breathing mechanism that they use, it is perhaps a bit like chucking pepper into someones face. I wouldn't dismiss it but wouldn't totally rely on it.

 

[Adios]

I think the point about how much sand is relevant but I could see a bucketful dropped directly into the path od an incoming Orca as being a deterrent, I doubt they will like it in the pathways and breathing mechanism that they use, it is perhaps a bit like chucking pepper into someones face. I wouldn't dismiss it but wouldn't totally rely on it.

they attack seals on beaches, i very much doubt a bit of sand in the water is going to do anything useful.

 

[Adios]

It seems the prudent thing to do is buy a couple of acoustic devices have a few buckets of sand in the cockpit and some big thunder flash type fireworks ( I think these would be most effective if they were able to explode sub surface)

I once made some "land mines" for my gravel driveway as a kid, scared the shit out of friend coming around, fun times before xboxes killed childhoods. Put a thin strand of copper wire that will burn at 12v, through the banger and attach to a thicker one to take to the battery. Switch in the circuit. You could make a bunch, dip them in wax and hang off the stern underwater when needed. Would like to try it out on a substantial steel boat first though. dolphin huggers won't like it of course. I'm all for the culling this pod idea anyway.

 

[sailaboutvic]

they attack seals on beaches, i very much doubt a bit of sand in the water is going to do anything useful.

I can see where Fr J H is coming from and if I happen to have sand on board I probably throught it over with bleach, toilets cleaner, batteries acid,oil and anything else I could find .
What I can't understand is where as this organisation got this from ? From their data their collected ?
I didn't think one of the question was do you carry sand.
As you quite rightly said these things navigate up beaches to kill they pray so sand not going to do much good unless it's mixed with ballast and cement and weigh a few 10s of ton and it land on their head , but then again the Orcas would be the last of your problems with that much weight on board

 

[Daydream believer]

What would the orange smoke flares do on the water? Presumably they make a mess on the water & a couple, dropped either side of the boat, when stationary, might put them off surfacing too close. Obviously they can dive under the stain. But does it break up quickly & would it confuse them?

 

[25931]

they attack seals on beaches, i very much doubt a bit of sand in the water is going to do anything useful.

I am not defending but just being pedantic, the Iberian orcas are piscivores, staple diet tunny. They do not attack other mammals.

 

[Wansworth]

Sounds all very well but in a good northerly offtheIberian coast waves will be a factor

 

[billskip]

I am not defending but just being pedantic, the Iberian orcas are piscivores, staple diet tunny. They do not attack other mammals.

Seems not quite correct..it seems rudder is also a favourite..

 

[25931]

Seems not quite correct..it seems rudder is also a favourite..

That

Seems not quite correct..it seems rudder is also a favourite..

That is just a snack.

 

[Laser310]

I wonder if anyone has tried Bear Spray?

I figure that many sailors are trying different and novel techniques, but not reporting the results.

Bear Spray is usually a red pepper spray, that is non-lethal.., for bears anyway.

The canisters will spray about 20-30ft.

The idea is that it gets in bear's eyes and lungs, causing a lot of pain, so they run away.

wind would be an issue - you wouldn't want it blowing back on yourself, but in an Orca situation, you would probably have time to put in goggles and some sort of mask before needing to use it.

If they are damaging your boat, they are pretty close, so hitting them with the spray is not going to be difficult, unless it's quite windy.

From the videos, it seems they are on the surface quite a bit near the boats.