New Benjenbav - spot the difference

[Baggywrinkle]

It's had a baby.

BJ Marine Launch Beneteau First 30 at Cannes Boat Show

OMG!!! ... spawn of the devil, you're all going to die if you use it on anything more than an inland lake on a sunny, windless day.

..... and it looks ugly, is too fat, doesn't have a skeg hung rudder, is not sturdy or heavy enough, doesn't have enough ballast, bet the keel will fall off, it'll slam ....

Have I forgotten anything?

Thought I'd get in first before the usual suspects wade in and trash it for being new.

 

[justanothersailboat]

That new little one looks like it could be quite a bit of fun. The usual "for the right people in the right circumstances" disclaimer applies, but probably quite a lot of both. I do share some posters' nerves about totally open cockpit backs though. Fine on a pure racer sailed by experienced folks clipped on for an afternoon's race. Stressful on a family cruiser with the kids when it starts to get a bit rough!

 

[flaming]

That new little one looks like it could be quite a bit of fun. The usual "for the right people in the right circumstances" disclaimer applies, but probably quite a lot of both. I do share some posters' nerves about totally open cockpit backs though. Fine on a pure racer sailed by experienced folks clipped on for an afternoon's race. Stressful on a family cruiser with the kids when it starts to get a bit rough!

Can't say I've found my open stern to be stressful at all with the kids on board. Neither have we ever taken a wave over the stern. Including in the overfalls at St Cats on this year's RTI....

 

[justanothersailboat]

That's good to know. My lot are stressful enough in a cockpit with high sides and stern! Unfair extrapolation on my part.

 

[John_Silver]

+1 for no need to worry with an open transom. My Rassy 310 has one. She trundles south, from the Medway, into Biscay (usually down to La Rochelle, sometimes to Spain) and back. Been doing so for 14 years. No waves shipped. Nothing lost overboard.

Benefits, of an open stern, noted to date:

If a wave ‘lands’ in the cockpit (after climbing over the windward rail), it drains instantly.

Allows tender to be inflated (and deflated) in the cockpit. With launch/ recovery through the stern.

No acrobatics required to come aboard after swimming or from tender.

For solo sailors: It’s easier to self-rescue, if you take an unexpected swim (than with a closed stern). Have fallen in twice. Both times in harbour, mooring up. After hauling myself back aboard, through the open stern, using a loop of line left rigged ‘just in case,’ plus a ‘pull cord,’ to lower the bathing ladder, I’ve been very thankful not to have had to negotiate the topsides. Whilst cold, in shock and fully clothed.Coming aboard like a beached seal has been strenuous enough!

On a lighter note, an open stern affords me my favourite view aboard. At the head of the saloon table, looking out, through the companionway and transom, to the anchorage beyond.

 

[Ingwe]

The main thing that stands out is the price as 100k euros ex VAT base price is less than the current first 27, will be interesting to see what corners they have cut to get down to that.

 

[westernman]

The main thing that stands out is the price as 100k euros ex VAT base price is less than the current first 27, will be interesting to see what corners they have cut to get down to that.

Less material. Less fiberglass/less resin.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Can't say I've found my open stern to be stressful at all with the kids on board. Neither have we ever taken a wave over the stern. Including in the overfalls at St Cats on this year's RTI....

I daresay that’s partly because it’s light displacement and does not wallow about in the troughs at 3 knots. If you’re more used to a Strange double ender, the concept of buoyancy and speed to prevent this are alien concepts.

 

[billskip]

Less material. Less fiberglass/less resin.

It's invisible then....

 

[flaming]

The main thing that stands out is the price as 100k euros ex VAT base price is less than the current first 27, will be interesting to see what corners they have cut to get down to that.

There's a thread on Anarchy where a chap from seascape is involved. He said the whole project was based on that cost cap, essentially Beneteau said "this is the cost you need to make it for, now make the best boat you can for that price." Zero wiggle room apparently.

Actually, I feel that in this market, and especially for a boat that's going to appeal to younger owners, that's a really smart move.

 

[flaming]

I daresay that’s partly because it’s light displacement and does not wallow about in the troughs at 3 knots. If you’re more used to a Strange double ender, the concept of buoyancy and speed to prevent this are alien concepts.

Exactly.... There are some here that look at a boat feature and say "that wouldn't work on my boat, so it must be awful" without considering the other aspects of the boat it is on that do make it work.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Exactly.... There are some here that look at a boat feature and say "that wouldn't work on my boat, so it must be awful" without considering the other aspects of the boat it is on that do make it work.

Your lovely JPK would be godawful with 2 tons of lead hanging on the bottom. But it works on various sorts of older designs. Any well designed boat is a joy to sail, and almost all are very seaworthy these days. Different techniques are required, that’s all.

 

[Laser310]

i just don't see how they can fit the depicted interior into a 30ft boat that actually looks pretty decent from the outside.

I have a 30ft boat - a J/92 S - and there is no room for anything like that.

I get that this is a bigger 30ft boat, but still...

 

[doug748]

i just don't see how they can fit the depicted interior into a 30ft boat that actually looks pretty decent from the outside.

I have a 30ft boat - a J/92 S - and there is no room for anything like that.

I get that this is a bigger 30ft boat, but still...

Looks very roomy but believable. I think it's a real interior + nifty use of a wide angle lens.

.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Can't help but notice on the interior pic that the saloon bench seat seems to be right against the hull window with not much sign of a recess or locker. That gives saloon width but don't stand up too quickly. And yes, wide angle view.

 

[flaming]

i just don't see how they can fit the depicted interior into a 30ft boat that actually looks pretty decent from the outside.

I have a 30ft boat - a J/92 S - and there is no room for anything like that.

I get that this is a bigger 30ft boat, but still...

Even more interesting is how far aft the mast is. In that pic we see the mast support post aft of the table... I actually suspect that helps with packaging the interior.

And note that the non-overlapping fractional jib is actually a touch larger than the main....

 

[geem]

Even more interesting is how far aft the mast is. In that pic we see the mast support post aft of the table... I actually suspect that helps with packaging the interior.

And note that the non-overlapping fractional jib is actually a touch larger than the main....

It's interesting that the mast is so far back. What is the technical explanation for this? Not long ago, all modern cruising boats were having masts a long way forward with the resulting small jibs and large mains. Now we seem to be heading for smaller mains? I notice the Imocas have the mast well aft presumably to allow 3 furling foresails.
It's interesting that with modern rig design (prior to this one) small jibs are supplemented with bow sprits and large overlapping light wind code zero type sails ( reverting to something not dissimilar to a large overlapping genoa when needed).

 

[flaming]

It's interesting that the mast is so far back. What is the technical explanation for this? Not long ago, all modern cruising boats were having masts a long way forward with the resulting small jibs and large mains. Now we seem to be heading for smaller mains? I notice the Imocas have the mast well aft presumably to allow 3 furling foresails.
It's interesting that with modern rig design (prior to this one) small jibs are supplemented with bow sprits and large overlapping light wind code zero type sails ( reverting to something not dissimilar to a large overlapping genoa when needed).

It's relatively simple in that bringing the mast aft allows you to have much bigger kites and reaching headsails for a given mast height. And make better use of staysails. This is more important when using A-sails then symetrical kites, as you need the separation when you're not polling back. The trade off historically has been that this limited the mainsail size due to fitting it inside the backstay. Or you needed a very long, and therefore heavy and expensive, bowsprit. However with the new trend to square top mains and split backstays this isn't really the case.
The developments in sail cloth in recent years have also meant that you can get larger, lower aspect, jibs to work well when cut flat and inhauled in a way that was very tricky to do back in the days of dacron sails and massive genoas. Thus the old adage of a skinny non overlapping jib being best for upwind pointing not holding quite as true. Look at the jibs on the AC boats now. In the stronger winds the jibs are not skinny but still full height as we're used to historically on race boats, they're short hoist and fat.

The renders on this boat do show a single backstay, for whatever they're currently worth when looking at such detail, so how they are dealing with this is yet to be seen. Proportionally the mast does look further aft than the 36. If I had to guess I suspect that this might be seascape making sure that a later "seascape special" version could take a bigger mast and square top main without major surgery, with the compromise of a smaller main than you might otherwise expect on the standard model.

 

[Stemar]

Looks very roomy but believable. I think it's a real interior + nifty use of a wide angle lens.

.

Similar photos when house-hunting a few years ago caused me to come up with the expression "To lie like an estate agent's photo"

 

[flaming]

Similar photos when house-hunting a few years ago caused me to come up with the expression "To lie like an estate agent's photo"

it's a render, so it's entirely possible that the "camera angle" is not actually inside the boat.