New Benjenbav - spot the difference

[flaming]

Built to take it

Interesting write up of their fastnet race.

 

[mrming]

Built to take it

Interesting write up of their fastnet race.

A lot of PR fluff to wade through but sounds like it’s a tough boat. 13th in IRC 1 with members of the works team on board perhaps indicates that the rule still penalises fun at this size, but would be good to see more results in varying conditions.

 

[flaming]

A lot of PR fluff to wade through but sounds like it’s a tough boat. 13th in IRC 1 with members of the works team on board perhaps indicates that the rule still penalises fun at this size, but would be good to see more results in varying conditions.

I dunno... Smallest boat and was mostly an upwind heavy airs race.

Agree, I'm keen to see more results. And for my numbers to come up in the Euromillions...

 

[mrming]

I dunno... Smallest boat and was mostly an upwind heavy airs race.

Agree, I'm keen to see more results. And for my numbers to come up in the Euromillions...

Next boat was a First 40 (Rogan Josh) with a very similar rating. We know those rate well so perhaps it’s not too bad. Would love to see it succeed. Just heading down to the corner shop myself.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Nah, it's no good, doesn't have a pleasant motion or a skeg hung rudder and it's too light .... but worst of all it was built in the 21st century so it must be no good.

If it doesn't have the same motion as a waterlogged tree-trunk then anyone born before 1960 will never buy it so it's doomed ... and all real sailors know you need a Contessa 32 for the Fastnet.

 

[flaming]

and all real sailors know you need a Contessa 32 for the Fastnet.

Wasn't even 1 entered this year.

 

[awol]

Wasn't even 1 entered this year.

.... and it was such perfect Contessa weather at the start.

 

[dunedin]

.... and it was such perfect Contessa weather at the start.

….. if you had a snorkel

 

[prestomg27]

I say this as a newly proud contessa 32 owner who has loved the boat along with She 36s etc for decades.

I don't get why people do not appreciate the leap forward in design and just how good modern hulls are, or can be. Open sterns have proven themselves time and time again in the toughest races. Planing hulls have circumnavigated in dozens of races.

The sad thing about the poor rump of the british sailing market that remains is how constrained it is to a handful of marques.

I tend to charter a yacht a few times a year when we stay in our house near la trinité and the variety of boats in the marina and on the market that are completely unknown in the uk is just mindblowing. Most, but not all, are state of the art designs like the beneteau 36, RM, Pogo, etc and the performance of them is generally way ahead of the boats that those on here throwing stones at 'modern design' have, including mine. Looking at the hugely popular and well supported races that take place with these boats, such as the la trinité to cowes and back, modern boats are hugely seaworthy as well.

 

[geem]

I say this as a newly proud contessa 32 owner who has loved the boat along with She 36s etc for decades.

I don't get why people do not appreciate the leap forward in design and just how good modern hulls are, or can be. Open sterns have proven themselves time and time again in the toughest races. Planing hulls have circumnavigated in dozens of races.

The sad thing about the poor rump of the british sailing market that remains is how constrained it is to a handful of marques.

I tend to charter a yacht a few times a year when we stay in our house near la trinité and the variety of boats in the marina and on the market that are completely unknown in the uk is just mindblowing. Most, but not all, are state of the art designs like the beneteau 36, RM, Pogo, etc and the performance of them is generally way ahead of the boats that those on here throwing stones at 'modern design' have, including mine. Looking at the hugely popular and well supported races that take place with these boats, such as the la trinité to cowes and back, modern boats are hugely seaworthy as well.

You are probably .looking at them from the perspective of your own use. My use is liveaboard stints of several months or years. Tfor that application the focus on what you want and need changes, especially if you want to live off the hook. I do appreciate that you dont want to do what I want to do with a boat. Modern designs are optimised for marina living, hooked in to shore power and designed to provide maximum accomodstion in multiple cabins.. none of that is a priority for me. There isn't a single modern boat design that would make my short list. An Oyster 55 would probably be on my list if I wanted to move up in size but I don't.
None of us are wrong in what we want out of a boat, it's just that we all have different ideas. You only have to look at the vastly different designs on the water to appreciate that.

 

[Supertramp]

Well put and I agree with you.

Part of the reason is the lack of new boats built in the UK, which in turn reduces the diversity of design with local manufacturing migrating to the top end of quality and price where conservative or established values prevail. This means a choice between a second hand boat or an imported new one and many choose secondhand.

Just watch the offshore racing fleets to see the potential and strength of seemingly lightweight designs.

For someone like me (and I suspect I'm not untypical), I can and do enjoy chartering or sailing on a sporty, twin wheel, light flier that goes to windward at 8.5knts/35.5 degrees of heel and pointing angle. But I also enjoy gentle cruising with crew or alone where the thrills come from the scenery and the pride of a well sailed passage. No speed records broken and a good night's sleep at anchor. Many different boats old and new will provide this - you make your choice.

Geem says the same I think but got there first.

 

[dslittle]

You are probably .looking at them from the perspective of your own use. My use is liveaboard stints of several months or years. Tfor that application the focus on what you want and need changes, especially if you want to live off the hook. I do appreciate that you dont want to do what I want to do with a boat. Modern designs are optimised for marina living, hooked in to shore power and designed to provide maximum accomodstion in multiple cabins.. none of that is a priority for me. There isn't a single modern boat design that would make my short list. An Oyster 55 would probably be on my list if I wanted to move up in size but I don't.
None of us are wrong in what we want out of a boat, it's just that we all have different ideas. You only have to look at the vastly different designs on the water to appreciate that.

We lived on board for 5 years. We now stay on board for about 6 months a year on a 45’ monohull modern plastic boat. We love it.

As you say, it’s what you need and what you want. We only sail when the conditions suit us. We are very fortunate in that we can afford to pay in marinas when we need to (very much helped by the Passeport Escale…). Modern designs are optimised for Marina living but we don’t have to compromise maximum living in multiple cabins (we only have two en suite cabins and a saloon…)

You are correct that we all have different ideals. I would never say that another yacht is bad because it’s not the one for me (nor do I think that you are!!!)

 

[geem]

We lived on board for 5 years. We now stay on board for about 6 months a year on a 45’ monohull modern plastic boat. We love it.

As you say, it’s what you need and what you want. We only sail when the conditions suit us. We are very fortunate in that we can afford to pay in marinas when we need to (very much helped by the Passeport Escale…). Modern designs are optimised for Marina living but we don’t have to compromise maximum living in multiple cabins (we only have two en suite cabins and a saloon…)

You are correct that we all have different ideals. I would never say that another yacht is bad because it’s not the one for me (nor do I think that you are!!!)

Marinas here are not popular. Life is at anchor here. Reliable wind direction means there are unlimited anchorages on the leeward side of the islands. It's nothing to do with cost. The vast majority of people simply don't want or need marinas here. Instead, people anchor and invest in a large dinghy and engine. Cruisers here often have 10 to 20hp engines and think nothing of traveling several miles in their dinghy. You can use them to snorkel, dive, shop, go to the bar or restaurant, kite surf, etc. It's vastly different to life in the Med.
The winter temperatures are warm/hot. We live in the cockpit the vast majority of the time. Anchorages can be bumpy as its often windy. For the last few days it's been blowing 17/25kts. Normal for the Caribbean. As we get closer to Xmas, the winds tend to pick up. 30kts it not uncommon with squalls to 40 and more. Good anchor gear is a must and a boat that doesn't swing all over the anchorage helps. Large open cockpits can be surprisingly miserable on a breezy evening when you are on somebodies boat for sundowners.
A boat that is self sufficient for power at anchor is a must. Easy boarding fromt he dinghy when the chop gets up is also nice. Almost everybody has a watermaker. A boat set up for marina living would need a fair amount of adjustment here

 

[flaming]

You are probably .looking at them from the perspective of your own use. My use is liveaboard stints of several months or years. Tfor that application the focus on what you want and need changes, especially if you want to live off the hook. I do appreciate that you dont want to do what I want to do with a boat. Modern designs are optimised for marina living, hooked in to shore power and designed to provide maximum accomodstion in multiple cabins.. none of that is a priority for me. There isn't a single modern boat design that would make my short list. An Oyster 55 would probably be on my list if I wanted to move up in size but I don't.
None of us are wrong in what we want out of a boat, it's just that we all have different ideas. You only have to look at the vastly different designs on the water to appreciate that.

Why are you talking about liveaboard cruising in a thread about the First 36? A boat which very clearly did not have that sort of use in mind when it was designed.

The boat in question is quite clearly suitable for a family summer cruise and some racing. Which is what it was designed for...

 

[Neeves]

Why are you talking about liveaboard cruising in a thread about the First 36? A boat which very clearly did not have that sort of use in mind when it was designed.

The boat in question is quite clearly suitable for a family summer cruise and some racing. Which is what it was designed for...

Well...

There must be a lot of similarities with a yacht 'suitable for a family summer cruise' and a live aboard yacht (unless your idea of a 'live aboard yacht' demands a full sized European washing machine, a library and a full sized workshop.).

This is a live aboard yacht: ex France, South America, Pacific, Australia, Indian Ocean, S Africa... It takes all sorts and all sorts of yachts.



It would not do if we were all the same (and predictable).

I managed production of their, lightweight, HT, anchor chain and had their Spade anchor regalvanised - otherwise I would have missed meeting them.

Jonathan

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Marinas here are not popular. Life is at anchor here. Reliable wind direction means there are unlimited anchorages on the leeward side of the islands. It's nothing to do with cost. The vast majority of people simply don't want or need marinas here. Instead, people anchor and invest in a large dinghy and engine. Cruisers here often have 10 to 20hp engines and think nothing of traveling several miles in their dinghy. You can use them to snorkel, dive, shop, go to the bar or restaurant, kite surf, etc. It's vastly different to life in the Med.
The winter temperatures are warm/hot. We live in the cockpit the vast majority of the time. Anchorages can be bumpy as its often windy. For the last few days it's been blowing 17/25kts. Normal for the Caribbean. As we get closer to Xmas, the winds tend to pick up. 30kts it not uncommon with squalls to 40 and more. Good anchor gear is a must and a boat that doesn't swing all over the anchorage helps. Large open cockpits can be surprisingly miserable on a breezy evening when you are on somebodies boat for sundowners.
A boat that is self sufficient for power at anchor is a must. Easy boarding fromt he dinghy when the chop gets up is also nice. Almost everybody has a watermaker. A boat set up for marina living would need a fair amount of adjustment here

Yeah right ... looks like marinas are insanely unpopular, this one will be going out of business soon I guess .... but reading the reviews you need to book well in advance.



... but at least there's an overspill boat park ... which is also often full ... certainly explains the need for a tender with a big engine.



The marina web site does also suggest overspill anchorages, so it seems like life on the hook can sometimes be a necessity rather than a choice.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer anchoring to marinas and avoid them like the plague, but they are not unpopular by any means, and perhaps it might be better if you avoided projecting your preferences, and the preferences of those you associate with, on others and try to pass them off as accepted wisdom.

This thread was discussing a 36ft modern boat that is capable of serious double digit speeds - I like that, loads of sailors like lively boats that sail well, I grew up on old plodders and I'm fed up with them. They bore me - but that's my preference. I can appreciate the nostalgia though, but I'm also a realist. Modern designs simply combine performance and living space with ease of handling. Older designs have basically missed out on around 30 years of sailboat evolution, a relic of past times.

You do seem to get it though, I quote: "You are probably looking at them from the perspective of your own use. " which is sound advice is it not? No point in buying a boat based on someone else preferences, or doctrine from last century - that would be totally stupid - I would regret buying a heavy center cockpit boat, even though some of them are quite pretty in a classic kind of way, they would really appeal to my dad though because he's a different generation.

The point is that "life in the Caribbean" is like life anywhere else on a boat, driven by budget, individual preferences and the local climate - and the vast majority of boaters in the Caribbean are holidaymakers, doing what holidaymakers do, visiting the most popular places, buying the "experience" before heading back to their lives to rinse and repeat a year later. You have chosen to become an interloper in their world, a bit like a pensioner buying a flat in Spain for winter, so you must cope with the tourists which mainly means avoiding them where possible - hence "life on the hook".

... and the most popular boat design for the Caribbean experience seems to be a Catamaran or an AWB if the numbers are anything to go by - unless you go down-budget, or want to avoid popular areas, then it could be quite literally anything.

 

[Mark-1]

Modern designs are optimised for marina living, hooked in to shore power and designed to provide maximum accomodstion in multiple cabins..

I chartered a Bav 42 in the Baltic with my GF at the time. It had massive water tanks, infinite storage, loads of space for the two of us. I'd say it was *way* more suited to significant time cruising/anchoring away from civilization than any of the older designs.

In fact someone actually rowed over to borrow water from us!

In my little Corribee I sometimes pay to be in a marina purely because there's so little space on the boat to spend a night at anchor. (In winter especially, all that space in a modern boat plus a diesel heater is very welcome.)

 

[geem]

I chartered a Bav 42 in the Baltic with my GF at the time. It had massive water tanks, infinite storage, loads of space for the two of us. I'd say it was *way* more suited to significant time cruising/anchoring away from civilization than any of the older designs.

In fact someone actually rowed over to borrow water from us!

In my little Corribee I sometimes pay to be in a marina purely because there's so little space on the boat to spend a night at anchor. (In winter especially, all that space in a modern boat plus a diesel heater is very welcome.)

What older 42ft designs have you also sailed?

 

[geem]

Yeah right ... looks like marinas are insanely unpopular, this one will be going out of business soon I guess .... but reading the reviews you need to book well in advance.

View attachment 168775

... but at least there's an overspill boat park ... which is also often full ... certainly explains the need for a tender with a big engine.

View attachment 168776

The marina web site does also suggest overspill anchorages, so it seems like life on the hook can sometimes be a necessity rather than a choice.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer anchoring to marinas and avoid them like the plague, but they are not unpopular by any means, and perhaps it might be better if you avoided projecting your preferences, and the preferences of those you associate with, on others and try to pass them off as accepted wisdom.

This thread was discussing a 36ft modern boat that is capable of serious double digit speeds - I like that, loads of sailors like lively boats that sail well, I grew up on old plodders and I'm fed up with them. They bore me - but that's my preference. I can appreciate the nostalgia though, but I'm also a realist. Modern designs simply combine performance and living space with ease of handling. Older designs have basically missed out on around 30 years of sailboat evolution, a relic of past times.

You do seem to get it though, I quote: "You are probably looking at them from the perspective of your own use. " which is sound advice is it not? No point in buying a boat based on someone else preferences, or doctrine from last century - that would be totally stupid - I would regret buying a heavy center cockpit boat, even though some of them are quite pretty in a classic kind of way, they would really appeal to my dad though because he's a different generation.

The point is that "life in the Caribbean" is like life anywhere else on a boat, driven by budget, individual preferences and the local climate - and the vast majority of boaters in the Caribbean are holidaymakers, doing what holidaymakers do, visiting the most popular places, buying the "experience" before heading back to their lives to rinse and repeat a year later. You have chosen to become an interloper in their world, a bit like a pensioner buying a flat in Spain for winter, so you must cope with the tourists which mainly means avoiding them where possible - hence "life on the hook".

... and the most popular boat design for the Caribbean experience seems to be a Catamaran or an AWB if the numbers are anything to go by - unless you go down-budget, or want to avoid popular areas, then it could be quite literally anything.

You forget that there are 25 countries in the Windward and Leeward islands alone. You can pick one with marinas. Martinique is the French Cwribbean capital of sailing. Charter boat hell. Hundreds of charter boats. Their peak season is in the summer. Completely opposite or every other island. The French will charter in hurricane season whilst every other island has a low season. There are over 3000 boats there, but its like a storage area. There are lots of liveaboard French tied in to the mangroves that live and work on the island.
If you want an opposite, go to Dominica. No marinas. All at anchor. Stunning island, only accessible without a marina.
Barbuda. No marinas. Aruba, Estancia, no marinas. All of the Grenadines, no marina. There are 26,000 boats spread across these islands and may be 3000 marina berths? That's a guess but really not many. It's not driven by money.
The vast majority of people are here on their own boats. Although charter boats are numerous, they are no where near the majority so most people are not holidaying here, unless you describe several months as a holiday. Most people would describe themselves as liveaboards even if its just for the winter season. The marinas and boat yards fill up for the summer as many go home for hurricane season.
I am not going to perpetuate the old versus new argument, I have done that to death. Play nicely

 

[flaming]

You forget that there are 25 countries in the Windward and Leeward islands alone. You can pick one with marinas. Martinique is the French Cwribbean capital of sailing. Charter boat hell. Hundreds of charter boats. Their peak season is in the summer. Completely opposite or every other island. The French will charter in hurricane season whilst every other island has a low season. There are over 3000 boats there, but its like a storage area. There are lots of liveaboard French tied in to the mangroves that live and work on the island.
If you want an opposite, go to Dominica. No marinas. All at anchor. Stunning island, only accessible without a marina.
Barbuda. No marinas. Aruba, Estancia, no marinas. All of the Grenadines, no marina. There are 26,000 boats spread across these islands and may be 3000 marina berths? That's a guess but really not many. It's not driven by money.
The vast majority of people are here on their own boats. Although charter boats are numerous, they are no where near the majority so most people are not holidaying here, unless you describe several months as a holiday. Most people would describe themselves as liveaboards even if its just for the winter season. The marinas and boat yards fill up for the summer as many go home for hurricane season.
I am not going to perpetuate the old versus new argument, I have done that to death. Play nicely

And still has almost nothing to do with a First 36....