dovekie
Active member
I find threads like this are very informative. a) I learn a lot about the pros and cons of different ways of doing things and b) I learn a lot about the different personalities of others with whom I share this hobby.
Locking turn or OXXO on a cleat
- Thread starter tudorsailor
- Start date
whipper_snapper
New member
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If the OXO or OXXO holds as it should, then the locking turn will only give piece of mind and wont lock up solid, so on mooring lines do what you are happy with.
[/ QUOTE ] Nearly got lakesailored here . . . exactly what I was going to say.
I use the standard OXO or OXXO depending on size of cleat, but usually put a locking turn on as well for luck.
I have never had a locking turn jam because the OXO or OXXO hasn't ever slipped.
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If you look at my very 1st post on the thread, I actually said exactly that.
And what is more, I have seen a skipper have to cut a halyard because an inexperienced crew put a locking turn on some kind of XX abortion. Guess who was bollocked for that?
[ QUOTE ]
If the OXO or OXXO holds as it should, then the locking turn will only give piece of mind and wont lock up solid, so on mooring lines do what you are happy with.
[/ QUOTE ] Nearly got lakesailored here . . . exactly what I was going to say.
I use the standard OXO or OXXO depending on size of cleat, but usually put a locking turn on as well for luck.
I have never had a locking turn jam because the OXO or OXXO hasn't ever slipped.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at my very 1st post on the thread, I actually said exactly that.
And what is more, I have seen a skipper have to cut a halyard because an inexperienced crew put a locking turn on some kind of XX abortion. Guess who was bollocked for that?
damo
New member
Hiya Vic - in the spirit of pedantry, just going on what looks like rusting mild steel washers /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Daedelus
Well-known member
I understood that the locking hitch was anathema because when hemp or other natural fibres got wet they really would jam solid and you'ld have a real struggle to undo it. However, now that so many lines are made of nylon, plyester or some other synthetic they are far more slippery and a locking turn may be employed at owner's whim.
As far as I'm concerned mooring lines do get a locking turn as the boat is likely to be left for days at a time and a really good change of wind can get the boat surging against the lines and I want to find her where I left her.
As far as I'm concerned mooring lines do get a locking turn as the boat is likely to be left for days at a time and a really good change of wind can get the boat surging against the lines and I want to find her where I left her.
mikeotteau
New member
Thames lightermen use OOO and if its good enough to tie hundreds of tonnes going up and down the London river it'll do for me
rwoofer
Active member
I have to say that OXO and OXXO have both slipped for me. From experience it seems more likely the smaller the rope is relative to the cleat.
For example, last time someone else tied up the boat (the dealer) they tied it up with OXO and I found the boat 5 feet away from the pontoon. I couldn't believe how close it was from casting off!
I don't generally do locking turns, but do at least OXXXO or OXXXXO as my safety measure.
For example, last time someone else tied up the boat (the dealer) they tied it up with OXO and I found the boat 5 feet away from the pontoon. I couldn't believe how close it was from casting off!
I don't generally do locking turns, but do at least OXXXO or OXXXXO as my safety measure.
whipper_snapper
New member
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Another thread where everyone has a different idea that works for them. Nothing wrong there, except that someone seems to be sitting in judgement and everyone but him is wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
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Ah well, at least I only claim to know how to tie a cleat, not manage the entire planet /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Another thread where everyone has a different idea that works for them. Nothing wrong there, except that someone seems to be sitting in judgement and everyone but him is wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah well, at least I only claim to know how to tie a cleat, not manage the entire planet /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
somerset
New member
Whilst in a blow in Biscay (wind speed reading 56 knots +) I tried to undo a reefing line that had 2 locking turns on it.Needless to say it had jammed.(The same crew member who perpetrated this crime was also responsible for showing steaming AND sailing lights at night).The line was nylon.My reponse was unprintable.The RYA way is the only way! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
peterb
New member
If you really want a case of "how not to do it" try the man who, I discovered, had secured the anchor chain with three locking turns. Not content with that, the tail was at the bottom and the top locking turn went straight to the anchor!
Lakesailor
New member
Ooh. Don't drag me into a Global Warming debate.
I'm strictly hands-off on the future of the planet. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm strictly hands-off on the future of the planet. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
doris
Well-known member
Nobody seems to have mentioned that when going the RYA road with OXO or OXXO it last O needs to be pulled tight under the other turns. This acts as a locking turn that can always be pulled you. With just a casual final O I can see haw slippage can happen. The final O done properly, I can't see how anything can move and have never seen any movement. This is in 20 odd years of sailing boats fromm 25ft to 115 feet but then if you use v small dia string on a big cleat perhaps anything can happen. Walk around any marina and the state of some mooring ropes beggars description on a family board. Maybe it's these peeps who need the locking turns.
mono
Active member
Careful now. The useless CQR that can't even set in jelly was also favoured by Hiscock. What did he know about anything?
Several circumnavigations and 250,000 miles later, Wanderer still carries her CQRs on the foredeck. Lucky or what not to have dragged onto some deserted atoll in the middle of the Pacific.
Apparently he didn't carry VHF either - amazingingly reckless. He also thought it ok to anchor on 3:1 scope.
A shame this forum wasn't around in the fifties and sixties - I'm sure he would soon have been put right and made to see the error of his ways.
I shouldn't pay any attention to how Hiscock tied off his ropes - he obviously didn't have a clue.
Several circumnavigations and 250,000 miles later, Wanderer still carries her CQRs on the foredeck. Lucky or what not to have dragged onto some deserted atoll in the middle of the Pacific.
Apparently he didn't carry VHF either - amazingingly reckless. He also thought it ok to anchor on 3:1 scope.
A shame this forum wasn't around in the fifties and sixties - I'm sure he would soon have been put right and made to see the error of his ways.
I shouldn't pay any attention to how Hiscock tied off his ropes - he obviously didn't have a clue.
alant
Active member
Nobody seems to have mentioned that when going the RYA road with OXO or OXXO it last O needs to be pulled tight under the other turns.
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Since when??
The fundamental benefit of OXO, is that as well as holding a mooring line inboard, it can be let off or adjusted easily/quickly if needed.
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Since when??
The fundamental benefit of OXO, is that as well as holding a mooring line inboard, it can be let off or adjusted easily/quickly if needed.
doris
Well-known member
Exactly. With the last O pulled under the 'pile' it is tight but only takes a second to pull out. I assume that if you are going to adjust the warp on the cleat then you are going to undo most of the turns. A slipped locking turn would be locked solid.
ean_p
Well-known member
Must confess I started my sailing with a retired bosun from the danish merchant marine and that 25 years ago. we sailed on his home built 43ft heavy ketch with not one winch on board. Every rope was sweated up or on tackels and every cleat was finished with an inverted turn to lock it , even the halyards ! thats how i,ve always done it since and never had one lock solid. of course had it locked solid then the other side of the coin is that it may have run through without the lock on
Master_and_Commander
New member
Locking turns every time for me. The OXO is supposedly easier to release under strain, but I've never had a problem.
webcraft
Well-known member
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had it locked solid then the other side of the coin is that it may have run through without the lock on
[/ QUOTE ] My point exactly.
We have a continuous line reefing system that requires both sides of the continuous line to be cleated off to be 100% certaiin of not slipping. I always use a locking turn on these (small) cleats.
If the locking turn jams then I can deal with that by using a rolling hitch on the line to free it. If I had not put the locking turn on then the genoa would have unfurled - and having had this happen once in 35 knots of wind I would far rather have the inconvenience of having the locked turn jam.
I have a locking turn on my genoa halliard for the same reason. Loss of genoa tension can cause furling problems when you least need them.
So - apart from mooring lines and genoa halliards and reefing lines, no, never ever . . . erm . . . well, I guess that means I had better surrender all my RYA bits of paper does it? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
- W
had it locked solid then the other side of the coin is that it may have run through without the lock on
[/ QUOTE ] My point exactly.
We have a continuous line reefing system that requires both sides of the continuous line to be cleated off to be 100% certaiin of not slipping. I always use a locking turn on these (small) cleats.
If the locking turn jams then I can deal with that by using a rolling hitch on the line to free it. If I had not put the locking turn on then the genoa would have unfurled - and having had this happen once in 35 knots of wind I would far rather have the inconvenience of having the locked turn jam.
I have a locking turn on my genoa halliard for the same reason. Loss of genoa tension can cause furling problems when you least need them.
So - apart from mooring lines and genoa halliards and reefing lines, no, never ever . . . erm . . . well, I guess that means I had better surrender all my RYA bits of paper does it? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
- W
mcframe
New member
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if I am ashore and someone passes me a line I often cleat it there and then making my best guess at the length the skipper wants. I suppose I decide what to do by looking at the crew onboard and the state of the other end for signs of their expectations!!
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FWIW, I try to avoid passing lines ashore (& to rafted boats) and just give 'em a bowline (to drop over that cleat, winch, etc, please), then we'll sort out the rest from our end, thankyouverymuch.
If you give a non-crewmember a line-without-a-loop, they've got to decide what to do with it - pull, cleat, etc - give 'em a bowline and it's pretty obvious.
Doesn't apply to single-handers, natch, but there's no point in having a human at each both ends of a line.
OXO, then a locking turn suits me on cleats - with a round-turn inna bowline ashore.
if I am ashore and someone passes me a line I often cleat it there and then making my best guess at the length the skipper wants. I suppose I decide what to do by looking at the crew onboard and the state of the other end for signs of their expectations!!
[/ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I try to avoid passing lines ashore (& to rafted boats) and just give 'em a bowline (to drop over that cleat, winch, etc, please), then we'll sort out the rest from our end, thankyouverymuch.
If you give a non-crewmember a line-without-a-loop, they've got to decide what to do with it - pull, cleat, etc - give 'em a bowline and it's pretty obvious.
Doesn't apply to single-handers, natch, but there's no point in having a human at each both ends of a line.
OXO, then a locking turn suits me on cleats - with a round-turn inna bowline ashore.
DaveS
Well-known member
Well, this thread has generated a remarkable range of "firmly" held views!
Just to add a variation... For the last 20 odd years I've used a method I picked up from an American author (who's name I now can't remember) of a useful (if a bit didactic) book called something like "Modern Marlinspike Seamanship". It goes like this:
With one end of the mooring line attached to the shore/pontoon/whatever, pass the line under the cleat horn furthest from the shore attachment, then under the other horn. Cross the line over the cleat, then under the first horn, cross again and put a locking turn over the second horn. And that's it. The big advantage of this method is that the first turn is almost an O, so can be used to surge when letting off, but unlike an O does not have any rope touching the first turn so it can't lock up, even under severe snatch loading. The second advantage is that few turns are used, so even with biggish rope and smallish cleats it still works.
It goes without saying that I've never had this system release itself or jam - or I wouldn't use it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Just to add a variation... For the last 20 odd years I've used a method I picked up from an American author (who's name I now can't remember) of a useful (if a bit didactic) book called something like "Modern Marlinspike Seamanship". It goes like this:
With one end of the mooring line attached to the shore/pontoon/whatever, pass the line under the cleat horn furthest from the shore attachment, then under the other horn. Cross the line over the cleat, then under the first horn, cross again and put a locking turn over the second horn. And that's it. The big advantage of this method is that the first turn is almost an O, so can be used to surge when letting off, but unlike an O does not have any rope touching the first turn so it can't lock up, even under severe snatch loading. The second advantage is that few turns are used, so even with biggish rope and smallish cleats it still works.
It goes without saying that I've never had this system release itself or jam - or I wouldn't use it! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
davies
New member
You could be in a panic to undo them if you had misjudged the fall of tide so that the boat's weight was beginning to hang from them.