Locking turn or OXXO on a cleat

[Sailfree]

Until I was told the proper way I used to use locking turns but for last 10yrs only OXO.

I often take inexperieced crew out and show them the OXO so consequently always visually check its done OK with full O.

Last Nov/Dec 07 with strong wind blowing us off the pontoon F8/9 forecast for Wight I was berthed at East Cowes. 43 AWB DS so high windage. I considered checking the mooring lines after some 15 hrs of being blown off but before I got round to it an OXO came undone. Nothing disasterous and soon retied.

Was it tied properly in the 1st place? I believe so but in future I will always check them after a long period of strain.

 

[MarkGrubb]

Never say never, but for my boat, with the ropes I use, oxxo is fine.

I came along side a french boat at Poole in the summer, and as I was sorting out the lines the skipper came over and told me that my oxxo wouldn't hold and i needed a locking turn /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Politely explained that I couldn't speak for anyone elses boat and rope, but on my boat, with those lines it would hold. His boat was fifty odd foot and he was using thick braid on braid ropes (the sort often used for sheets) as mooring lines. Mine is 29' and I use 3 strand polyester. Completely different ropes and boats, so no idea why he thought the same rules should apply to both.

 

[syfreyafrey]

I follow the RYA and Royal Navy advice (the latter has had hundreds of years of experience to find the best way of doing things!) and I use OXO. The logic is:
1. A complete round turn - an "O". The friction between this first turn and the cleat is what actually carries the load on the cleat - what someone in the forum refers to as "binding". If there's no bind - no friction - then you're wasting your time.
2. A figure 8 cross turn with ONE turn under each arm of the cleat - an "X". (This prevents the first "O" turn from slipping)
3. A final complete round turn around the outside of the cleat - a final "O". (This protects the "X" from coming undone.) In over 55 years of boating and nearly 50,000 nautical miles of cruising, this system has NEVER ONCE come undone.
The main problem is that locking turns can (and DO!) jam. On three or four occasions over the years I have needed to take a knife or hacksaw to get a locking turn undone (on other people's boats) particularly after it has been there over winter, when the ropes become less flexible.
The issues are:
1. On rare occasions - such as when there is a fire on board an neighbouring boat (It DOES happen! A few days ago a boat caught fire next to my old berth in the Mayflower - Google "Mayflower Marina Fire" . I accept that this doesn't happen every day, but you wouldn't argue against having a fireblanket on the grounds that you've never needed to use one, would you?) , or when an anchorage becomes untenable overnight - it is necessary to move quickly, perhaps in the dark or foul weather.
OXO is easy to undo with ONE hand, and in the dark, so you can do it, even when holding on tight with the other hand. If you're really adept, you can do it with a flick of the wrist without even going to the cleat so you can undo it from the pontoon cleat without stepping ashore. I've also had to "get the hell out of there" and fast on one occasion when another boat broke loose in a storm overnight. Again, being able to undo OXO one-handed in the dark with spray and waves crashing around made all the difference.
2. OXO can be adjusted or released with full control, even when under full load.
3. Many people here in France put a locking turn on the pontoon cleat and then take the rope end back to the boat to use as a spring. When the boat tugs on the spring, the locking turn gets progressively tighter and eventually jams - which is the commonest reason when I have been asked to cut a mooring rope. The other reason is simply rope hardening over a winter season - or longer - which makes it impossible to get the locking turn undone.

 

[awol]

Another Zombie rises!
Seems appropriate as we wait for the US election results. This is how the sceptics do it!

 

[tudorsailor]

Wow I started this thread in 2008!

TS

 

[jimi]

My understanding is that locking turns are decried because in the olden days when ropes were made of hemp, tied with a locking turn and then got wet then the hemp shrank and cold welded the locking turn. With modern ropes there is not that issue and I've no hesitation in using a locking turn,

 

[ctva]

The start of the zombie apocalypse...

Locking turns, always use them after an O and an X or two. 40+years and never had one jam.

IF it jamed, then there was tension on it so the initial O and X were not sufficient which could be a discrepancy on the line size to the cleat size. Each situation is different and anyone that says 'my way only' hasn't a clue.

 

[RichardS]

Don't forget to dip the eye.

Richard

 

[C08]

I think the type of rope is critical to this issue, a stiff rope acn progresively work loose.

 

[Skellum]

My RYA yacht master instructor taught me 0800 / OXOO. Never felt the need for a locking turn and never had a rope come off a cleat. The ease of releasing has been a benefit on a few occasions.

 

[Jonny A]

OXO only and every time.

 

[ryanroberts]

I have started using cleat hitches, with no real evidence or experience I just sort of like doing it. Feels more snug.

 

[tudorsailor]

An O plus a locked X leave more room on the cleat for another line. An OXOO fills it up and certainly would not get a 2nd OXOO on a cleat.
Not (yet) had a problem undoing a O + Locked X done with a complete O, and not 1/2 an O and then the X.
TS

 

[johnalison]

Another Zombie rises!
Seems appropriate as we wait for the US election results. This is how the sceptics do it!

There are many instances where we should not copy the Americans, and this is another. Not even a round turn to start.

 

[JumbleDuck]

 

[capnsensible]

Chandlers.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Chandlers.

Nope, he was in Friends.

 

[dom]

My understanding is that locking turns are decried because in the olden days when ropes were made of hemp, tied with a locking turn and then got wet then the hemp shrank and cold welded the locking turn. With modern ropes there is not that issue and I've no hesitation in using a locking turn,

Golly, how times have changed since 2008! ?

 

[38mess]

I suppose it all depends on how much rope you have, I wouldn't be happy leaving my boat with just 3 X's on a cleat. On my boat I just put xxxx and then 000 with the surplus rope, never bothered with a locking turn. In fact going back to my basic RN training we just took X's around the bits onboard. The outboard part going to the dock usually was a soft eye

 

[Blue Sunray]

There are many instances where we should not copy the Americans, and this is another. Not even a round turn to start.

He doesn't seem very American:

A marine surveyor, and holder of Royal Yachting Association (RYA) Yachtmaster Ocean certification, Mark has built five boats himself — power and sail. He was senior editor of Sail magazine's hands-on "Boatworks" publication, worked for the BBC, written four DIY books, skippered two round-the-world yachts, and holds the Guinness World Record for the fastest there-and-back crossing of the English Channel, in a kayak! He and his wife live on their Grand Banks 32.