Lifting a MOB

[howardclark]

Because we are in the Classics Cross Channel Regatta in July we are reviewing our MOB procedures. We are lucky that the boat is low at the quarters, so for quite a big boat we only need to lift about 1 metre to be able to manhandle someone on board, and our main boom and sheet block are ideally placed for that lifting.
Everyone will wear life jackets with crotch straps and we have a lifting sling on board.
My question is, in the rush to get the casualty back on board, why not connect the lifting line directly to the life jacket and haul away? Does it slip off? The extra time and difficulty to fit the sling, possibly to an unconscious person has to be a concern.
I’m sure there are lots of you who can advise me!
Thanks in advance

 

[Roberto]

In case of hypothermia, remember it's better to lift someone as horizontal as possible. A lifting point at chest height plus a second one under the knees might prove useful.
Never tried though, mostly sail singlehanded.

 

[Sandy]

You need to volunteer to be lifted like you describe and report back.

 

[Refueler]

Have lifted various out of water and TBH - the kindest way for a person to be lifted ? sail in water - person into the sail .. hoist and roll person on board.

 

[Graham_Wright]

All these technical/theoretical solutions need to be tried for real to discover how difficult/impossible they are.
I have been a volunteer MOB - a sobering experience.

 

[capnsensible]

On my school yacht, I had a helicopter rescue strop for lifting a casualty using a halyard from around midships. As you can imagine, we practiced all sorts of ways over the years and this was always the most effective for a simulated casualty. Any similar kind of sling works.

 

[Graham_Wright]

That is also my preferred method. A side benefit is that the casualty is swung clear of the guardrails. The danger is that he can be smashed against the hull if the boat rolls. All down to timing.
Using a boom presupposes no sail rigged. Trying to rig a device to lift a MOB horizontally risks death from hypothermia.

 

[jlavery]

This is likely to develop into a long thread, with lots of opinions...

My 2p worth follows. (I've been involved in a full-on MOB at night, mid-ocean, in 30+kts of wind. Not nice. I've also practised with our MOB kit with my wife, lifting off a pontoon, not the water. I've also practised various methods as Cruising Instructor).

I second @Graham_Wright - you need to try out your proposed method. They're all not as easy as you think.

I don't think mainsheet off boom is a good idea. Think about the circumstances when someone might go overboard. Having the boom swinging around as the boat rolls, and then trying to attach the MOB to the sheet.

Our preferred method is a purpose-made billy-tackle which can clip on to the end of a halyard. The billy tackle is then operated from the side deck, next to the MOB recovery location. (This is all designed for 2-handed sailing, so only one person left on board). We also have MOB Lifesavers on our lifejackets, to make it easier to attach the casualty to the lifting tackle. We then also have a sling to put under the casualty's knees, so that they're lifted horizontally. Lifting horizontally reduces likelihood of postural hypotension if the casualty is hypothermic, and also means you don't have to lift as high.

PS - good luck with the Classics Regatta, I did it a few years ago, and it was great fun.

 

[capnsensible]

Hydrostatic shock is always good for a ....discussion. some sources I've talked to told me that yeah, horizontal is good. But if the casualty hasn't been in very long, typical in a yacht situation, then instead of faffing about, speed of recovery is better.

Bit subjective though. Rescue services with their top kit and practice may be fishing someone out who has been immersed for a while.

 

[jlavery]

Hydrostatic shock is always good for a ....discussion. some sources I've talked to told me that yeah, horizontal is good. But if the casualty hasn't been in very long, typical in a yacht situation, then instead of faffing about, speed of recovery is better.

Bit subjective though. Rescue services with their top kit and practice may be fishing someone out who has been immersed for a while.

Very good point. Always a balance between faff and speed needed.

 

[ylop]

Have lifted various out of water and TBH - the kindest way for a person to be lifted ? sail in water - person into the sail .. hoist and roll person on board.

I've done this as a practice exercise once many many years ago - in the days when people actually hanked on sails each time - on a typical modern yacht with furling, lazy jacks etc - you'd waste quite a bit of time - you definitely wouldn't want the first time your crew tried it to be when you are in the water!

My question is, in the rush to get the casualty back on board, why not connect the lifting line directly to the life jacket and haul away? Does it slip off? The extra time and difficulty to fit the sling, possibly to an unconscious person has to be a concern.

If they are unconscious at least they won't complain about how uncomfortable it is! With a properly fitted life jacket including crotch straps it SHOULD be possible to lift like that, but reality is not everyone has their lifejacket properly fitted all the time - pulling it off over their head would make a bad day worse!

 

[Refueler]

I've done this as a practice exercise once many many years ago - in the days when people actually hanked on sails each time - on a typical modern yacht with furling, lazy jacks etc - you'd waste quite a bit of time - you definitely wouldn't want the first time your crew tried it to be when you are in the water!

[/QUOTE]

People suggest using the boom and sheet tackle .. which means dropping the main anyway ..

A furler genny should drop quickly as well ...

Sorry - I think a boom under control and use one of the sails is still my preferred option ..

If they are unconscious at least they won't complain about how uncomfortable it is! With a properly fitted life jacket including crotch straps it SHOULD be possible to lift like that, but reality is not everyone has their lifejacket properly fitted all the time - pulling it off over their head would make a bad day worse!

During Fire courses for MN ... it was drummed into us .. saving life is worth a few bruises - even odd broken bone of victim ... they can argue with you later being alive !!!

But the correctly fitted LJ is a factor too often seen.

 

[ylop]

People suggest using the boom and sheet tackle .. which means dropping the main anyway ..

A furler genny should drop quickly as well ...

Means working on the foredeck in conditions where someone else has gone overboard already...
I'd not rule it out, but I wonder how many casual crew (rather than owners) have even raised or lowered the genoa!
But I'd be just as worried about those people taking the mainsheet off without rehearsing/practicing that.
Too much emphasis in the courses is on getting to the MOB not recovering it IMHO.

 

[capnsensible]

Means working on the foredeck in conditions where someone else has gone overboard already...
I'd not rule it out, but I wonder how many casual crew (rather than owners) have even raised or lowered the genoa!
But I'd be just as worried about those people taking the mainsheet off without rehearsing/practicing that.
Too much emphasis in the courses is on getting to the MOB not recovering it IMHO.

Depends who is coaching the course.....

Anyway, it's in the syllabus for the standard 3 RYA courses.

Have tried using a sail a few times. Anything over about a force 2 is generally a waste of time, blows all over the place. Plus getting a sail to sink when it doesn't want to sink wastes a load more time. In my experience.....

 

[Refueler]

Means working on the foredeck in conditions where someone else has gone overboard already...
I'd not rule it out, but I wonder how many casual crew (rather than owners) have even raised or lowered the genoa!
But I'd be just as worried about those people taking the mainsheet off without rehearsing/practicing that.
Too much emphasis in the courses is on getting to the MOB not recovering it IMHO.

The whole exercise is a double risk regardless of how you do it ...

I agree that getting MOB out of water is poorly covered ... and those who think swimming pool exercises with rafts answers it - sadly not.

 

[Sandy]

Hydrostatic shock is always good for a ....discussion. some sources I've talked to told me that yeah, horizontal is good. But if the casualty hasn't been in very long, typical in a yacht situation, then instead of faffing about, speed of recovery is better.

Bit subjective though. Rescue services with their top kit and practice may be fishing someone out who has been immersed for a while.

I understand the original research about hydrostatic shock was because of a number of people who were alive at the start of a helicopter winch, but dead by the time they were in the cab!

I don't see that as a problem in a yacht under 20 metres.

 

[capnsensible]

I understand the original research about hydrostatic shock was because of a number of people who were alive at the start of a helicopter winch, but dead by the time they were in the cab!

I don't see that as a problem in a yacht under 20 metres.

Yeah, again time immersed I reckon is a significant factor. Helicopter rescue.....may have been I some time?

Suppose you then got stuff like water temperature, body mass, yadda yadda and even more basic 'will to live'.

 

[Sumara of Weymouth]

I made a boarding ladder cum parbuckle net from polyester webbing and carbon fiber rods. It worked well in a practice situation. There is a video of it in action Here

 

[B27]

I've seen a few videos of patent nets and sails and contraptions for trawling casualties onto the yacht.
It would look very different in even a moderate sea state.

Shorthanded, using a winch to assist a conscious casualty up the transom steps is perhaps the best you can hope for?

 

[capnsensible]

I've seen a few videos of patent nets and sails and contraptions for trawling casualties onto the yacht.
It would look very different in even a moderate sea state.

Shorthanded, using a winch to assist a conscious casualty up the transom steps is perhaps the best you can hope for?

In any sort of sea state, recovery over the stern is very tricky. Side deck by cockpit for me.