Lifting a MOB

[MikeCC]

Only been involved in one real MOB. Caught with boat hook, halyard attached to LJ harness ring, winched aboard. CPR etc.

Maybe carries the risk of exacerbating a potential neck/spine injury but when someone is in the water face submerged and quite blue, getting them out is the priority.

 

[Sandy]

Suppose you then got stuff like water temperature, body mass, yadda yadda and even more basic 'will to live'.

Don't forget the, 'I'm saved', reaction - then croaking it. Apparently much observed with WWII convoy survivors.

 

[Refueler]

On my school yacht, I had a helicopter rescue strop for lifting a casualty using a halyard from around midships. As you can imagine, we practiced all sorts of ways over the years and this was always the most effective for a simulated casualty. Any similar kind of sling works.

I have joined / left many ships by Heli using the 'strop'.

The strop is fine for a conscious person - but if not - then the arms are not down by side or across chest to prevent strop riding up and off. Hollywood movies showing body bent and hanging in a strop are bulls***

The one thing wire operator tells you in the Heli .. KEEP YOUR F****** ARMS CROSSED LOW OR AT SIDE ... and he really means it !!

 

[capnsensible]

I have joined / left many ships by Heli using the 'strop'.

The strop is fine for a conscious person - but if not - then the arms are not down by side or across chest to prevent strop riding up and off. Hollywood movies showing body bent and hanging in a strop are bulls***

The one thing wire operator tells you in the Heli .. KEEP YOUR F****** ARMS CROSSED LOW OR AT SIDE ... and he really means it !!

Appreciate that but you are only lifting them a couple of feet and you can lay on the side deck and grab hold of them.

I enjoy doing mob practice with people on all sorts of boats because it brings so many things together.

 

[thinwater]

The only cases I have heard of always come down to one of three solutions:

• The person is able to climb a ladder.
• The person is hoisted by a halyard or halyard plus tackle. The were wearing either a harness or a harness/PFD combo.
• The person is hauled aboard by 2-3 people.

I'm sure there are slings that are more comfortable and safer in some theoretical sense, but as a practical matter the weather is shit, the deck is heaving and slippery, and only the 3 methods actually work.

 

[Refueler]

Bembridge Hbr ..... early summer.

I mistepped into the dinghy and fell in ... I managed to grab the toe-rail and hang on ... but from waist down in the water.

I have a slab rudder that sticks out from stern .. then two spring loaded steps on transom ... Idea being you step first onto rudder - then up the two steps.

I made my way round to rudder ... tried to get foot onto rudder .. kept slipping off and legs going numb.

This was within just a few minutes only.

It took 2 guys and a lot of effort to get me back on board ... by then my lower body was literally immovable ... it took quite a while before I could move around.

Many years before doing Sea Survival Course outside Plymouth Brkwater ... brought back memories ... where I suffered cold shock and hypothermia ...

What I have never been able to reconcile .. is that example of Bembridge hbr ... people used to swim across it ! But when I fell in - I suffered cold numbness quickly ... no way could I swim ..

 

[Refueler]

The only cases I have heard of always come down to one of three solutions:

• The person is able to climb a ladder.
• The person is hoisted by a halyard or halyard plus tackle. The were wearing either a harness or a harness/PFD combo.
• The person is hauled aboard by 2-3 people.

I'm sure there are slings that are more comfortable and safer in some theoretical sense, but as a practical matter the weather is shit, the deck is heaving and slippery, and only the 3 methods actually work.

#1 - if water is warm and no cold shock .. ok. Cold water ? Forget it - honest - personal experience !
#2 - OK
#3 - usual way I've seen or heard about ... hope there are so many on board to do it !

 

[Victorianna]

Seems like lots of votes for some sort of lifting tackle.
How would one make this up? Would a 4:1 purchase (as I think my mainsheet blocks are) be enough to for a smallish wife to lift a waterlogged, fully kitted up, unconscious husband?

 

[capnsensible]

Bembridge Hbr ..... early summer.

I mistepped into the dinghy and fell in ... I managed to grab the toe-rail and hang on ... but from waist down in the water.

I have a slab rudder that sticks out from stern .. then two spring loaded steps on transom ... Idea being you step first onto rudder - then up the two steps.

I made my way round to rudder ... tried to get foot onto rudder .. kept slipping off and legs going numb.

This was within just a few minutes only.

It took 2 guys and a lot of effort to get me back on board ... by then my lower body was literally immovable ... it took quite a while before I could move around.

Many years before doing Sea Survival Course outside Plymouth Brkwater ... brought back memories ... where I suffered cold shock and hypothermia ...

What I have never been able to reconcile .. is that example of Bembridge hbr ... people used to swim across it ! But when I fell in - I suffered cold numbness quickly ... no way could I swim ..

We pulled a few soggy people out of marinas. Perks of living aboard. Often fallen due to being 'exuberant'.

Something that works is to untie a fender, get them to hold on and drag them to the easiest place to get out. Often a sugar scoop stern. Then the fun begins with 'no I'm fine, hic, thanks, hic, I'm gonna be alright, vom'.

 

[jlavery]

Seems like lots of votes for some sort of lifting tackle.
How would one make this up? Would a 4:1 purchase (as I think my mainsheet blocks are) be enough to for a smallish wife to lift a waterlogged, fully kitted up, unconscious husband?

We use the billy tackle from MOB savers - picture below. Pricey, but well engineered. You can of course make your own up and save money. Jimmy Green and others can supply similar billy tackles.

My 55kg wife can lift 72kg me easily with this - albeit me not wearing soaking sailing kit which would add quite a few kgs.

One thing to consider is how to lock off the tackle. This one has a ratchet block - but you could use a cam cleat. Also the ratchet block/cam cleat should be at the top, so that you're pulling down. Obvious when you think about it. The subtle advantage of a ratchet block over a cam cleat is that it's easy to lower the casualty if/when they catch under the lifelines (which happened to me), and when you want to lower them onto deck once inboard of the lifelines.

 

[dolabriform]

We use the billy tackle from MOB savers - picture below. Pricey, but well engineered. You can of course make your own up and save money. Jimmy Green and others can supply similar billy tackles.

My 55kg wife can lift 72kg me easily with this - albeit me not wearing soaking sailing kit which would add quite a few kgs.

One thing to consider is how to lock off the tackle. This one has a ratchet block - but you could use a cam cleat. Also the ratchet block/cam cleat should be at the top, so that you're pulling down. Obvious when you think about it. The subtle advantage of a ratchet block over a cam cleat is that it's easy to lower the casualty if/when they catch under the lifelines (which happened to me), and when you want to lower them onto deck once inboard of the lifelines.

View attachment 178489

We have the same, but with our own handy billy. The kids use it for launching and retrieving the dinghy with the Spinny Halyard so they are well preactised in how it works.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Fit MOB Lifesavers (as mentioned above) to all lifejackets and carry a couple of spares for guests. Have an 8:1 ratchet block with carabiners at each end,

MOB in water, lifesaver floats free.
Get alongside MOB boat hook lifesaver and attach to mid ship cleat.
Connect 8:1 block carabiner to spiny or other halyard.
Hoist 8:1 block on spiny or other halyard at least 15’
Clip other carabiner to Lifesaver
Use block to haul onboard.

I bought the whole lot as noted above. I can rig it in under 3 minutes, while the boat is being manoeuvred back. My small , lightweight wife can lift all 210 lbs of me effortlessly, single handed, ratchet block, horizontal and position me in cockpit or down fore hatch. No other help needed.

Tried and tested, it works, no faffing about.

I would not use anything else on my boat, and insist that guests who bring their own life jackets fit one of my lifesavers. They fit to the lifting strop and tuck inside the stole. I flake ready to float free. If no lifting strop, then you need to consider alternative.

 

[thinwater]

#1 - if water is warm and no cold shock .. ok. Cold water ? Forget it - honest - personal experience !
#2 - OK
#3 - usual way I've seen or heard about ... hope there are so many on board to do it !

#1. Actually, this really depends on how you dress. Dry suit, no problem at all.
#3. Most MOBs are racing. They take chances. And typically they are fully crewed by strong guys. With couple cruising, this is not going to work. And now we go down the rabbit hole of MOB drills and methods for couples crews.

In fact, I once went for a 200 M swim from shore in 0 C water to retrieve a rudder (long story) in just a Windstopper Fleese outfit. I thought about it before hand and had a rope on me (mostly so I did not have to swim the rudder back) but I was alone. No real problem, I swam the distanced, climbed up the rocks and hopped back 400 M of rough breakwater to my waiting, warm car. A ladder would have presented no challenge. I was a little red and immediately changed into dry clothes. I think I would have been pretty capable for 20 minutes, just not happy. But Windblocker Fleece is good for this. Not something I would be wearing in the summer. Fortunately, thought our winter water gets very cold, it warms up very nicely in the summer. About 21 C now, with 24 C air.

For kayakers the rule is that you dress for the water not the air. Sailing, people can get in trouble by not following this rule, at least in part.

 

[thinwater]

... What I have never been able to reconcile .. is that example of Bembridge hbr ... people used to swim across it ! But when I fell in - I suffered cold numbness quickly ... no way could I swim ..

This is a very interesting point. The Channel has been swum ... and I hate swimming in cold water. I'm sure there are many factors, other than clothing:

• Are you fully warmed up when you went in? In the example I gave in another post I had been running around. Winter hunters and fisherman are often nearly hypothermic when they fall in.
• Is the person a strong swimmer. I don't mean a few laps in the pool, I mean ocean swimming in waves and breakers. It's different. It changes how your respond to being tossed upside down and I think also how you manage with clothes on. You are accustomed to a fight and to keeping your head together. Around here, many grew up surfing.
• Are you generating heat?

But I don't know. I do think being ready for a fight, and not being surprised by it, is important.

I've been in very cold water many, many times in a wet or dry suit. Totally different. Still darn cold on the face.

 

[bedouin]

Seems like lots of votes for some sort of lifting tackle.
How would one make this up? Would a 4:1 purchase (as I think my mainsheet blocks are) be enough to for a smallish wife to lift a waterlogged, fully kitted up, unconscious husband?

My wife can't haul me up the mast on a 10:1 winch. So if I were you I wouldn't bet your life on your wife being able to haul you in on 4:1 mainsheet.

Also on my mainsheet the sheet leaves from the lower block - if you detach that and attach it to the lifejacket it would not be in a good position to apply any force to hauling it in.

 

[ylop]

Depends who is coaching the course.....

Anyway, it's in the syllabus for the standard 3 RYA courses.

Do you actually practice recovering a dummy (or similar water logged weight) back into the boat? Or just discuss it?

It’s only an “understand” at Comp Crew - and they might be the only people left on board… the wording the other syllabuses is sufficiently vague that I am fairly sure a lot of schools are using a bucket and fender and then talking about the practicalities of actually getting them on the boat - at least at DS. A YM examiner might be more rigorous, but by that point removing a sail or getting unfastening the main sheet is less daunting.

 

[ylop]

Seems like lots of votes for some sort of lifting tackle.
How would one make this up? Would a 4:1 purchase (as I think my mainsheet blocks are) be enough to for a smallish wife to lift a waterlogged, fully kitted up, unconscious husband?

Not unless you are remarkably petite or your wife remarkably strong (or keen to get you back!) for her stature…

Say you are a fairly average 80kg. Fully kitted that will be at least 85. Water logged probably 100 or more.

So the question is could she lift >25kg? I can, but on a wet rope with cold hands on a rolling deck I’m not so sure.

I’ve tested and my wife can do it with the spinnaker uphaul on a winch. She may prefer the insurance money though!

 

[William_H]

We have had a session in yacht club marina on typical 38ft boat. Tried various methods with volunteer.
One proposed method used a small jib foot lashed to toe rail about mid ships, head attached to spin halyard or topping lift. Got victim in and worked well about half way up side of boat. The sail stretched where it was attached tack and clew and he fell out between sail foot and hull. Ok but you need to attach foot further in board.
I think the most practical for a conscious person is to throw them a long rope with bowline tied at his end. Get it around body under arms. (or attach to Life jacket tether if there is one) Get him around to stern to climb up the stern ladder. Attach the rope to topping lift or even back stay up high ideally through a sheave or even a loop of rope attached to backstay split. (if you have one) Then the climb up the stern ladder is aided with safety line under arms or just pulled by a crew. Yes the stern will be rising and falling but this may be used to advantage with the rope aid.
Certainly the whole subject needs consideration and practice. Just what gear you keep handy for MOB is a difficult decision. Handy billy is great if often used for other things. Throw line long rope all good.
As a thread drift our club has 18ft mobo support boat. On the roof is an arrangement so that a beam can be attached that hangs out the side. We have a 6 purchase tackle of 10mm rope long enough to go down to water. We have a floating sling arrangement made for MOB. that could be used to hoist a person out of the water. We also have a "Spine board" ie GRP solid stretcher with lines to sides to enable lift from the water by the tackle. We carry a buoyancy vest for crew in case of need to get in the water to help victim. (war water here) Fortunately none of it has been used in anger. Problems are that the huge tackle gets tangled. Recently when the spine board might have been used they could not get it untied from under gunwhale. Box with knife was locked. No key. It is a constant problem to get volunteer drivers to think about rescue and check the available recue gear. ol'will

 

[thinwater]

My wife can't haul me up the mast on a 10:1 winch. So if I were you I wouldn't bet your life on your wife being able to haul you in on 4:1 mainsheet.

Also on my mainsheet the sheet leaves from the lower block - if you detach that and attach it to the lifejacket it would not be in a good position to apply any force to hauling it in.

My rather sturdy but 60" daughter can haul me up with an 8.3:1 Lewmar, but that is in a swim suit, I'm 158 pounds, and she is sturdy. She hoisted me all the way up without trouble. 4:1 mainsheet ... no way.

A gate reduces the lifting distance ~ 30% because she does not have to lift me over the railing. Also, the victim will slide over the rail more smoothly than a wire.

Even a padded Lifesling is surprisingly painful. I'm pulling to get the pressure off my pits, but this would be a good way for a tired swimmer to fall out.

---

No, the boom does not swing around much on a cat because the traveler is way out. It is also harder to use the halyard because of the greater beam and lack of heeling (on a mono the mast head will be nearly over the rail). There is practically no room to work a the beam on many multihulls because of the big cabins, but lots of room in the cockpit. Just mono-multi differences.

 

[Neeves]

Because we are in the Classics Cross Channel Regatta in July we are reviewing our MOB procedures. We are lucky that the boat is low at the quarters, so for quite a big boat we only need to lift about 1 metre to be able to manhandle someone on board, and our main boom and sheet block are ideally placed for that lifting.
Everyone will wear life jackets with crotch straps and we have a lifting sling on board.
My question is, in the rush to get the casualty back on board, why not connect the lifting line directly to the life jacket and haul away? Does it slip off? The extra time and difficulty to fit the sling, possibly to an unconscious person has to be a concern.
I’m sure there are lots of you who can advise me!
Thanks in advance

We had an MOB in benign weather under spinnaker on a 'social' sail. Back end of a typhoon, so choppy seas and breaking crests and beautiful white fluffy clouds in a blue sky. By the time we had 'managed' the spinnaker the individual tasked with keeping the MOB in sight had lost her. We knew roughly where she was and fortunately when we were on top of a wave and so was she - we saw her but our guess for her location was wildly out.

Under less ideal conditions.....?

As a skipper I shudder and have a chill down my spine. I was, very, lucky.

Its not been said but many MOBs don't make it, or the yacht does not make it.

You say:

"Everyone will wear life jackets with crotch straps and we have a lifting sling on board."

No mention of tethers, no mention of jackstays, no mention of hard points. No mention when these will be used (or not).

If its difficult, impossible, to become a statistic - the problems of retrieval do not apply.

Jonathan