Is Seastart a Copout ?

[Guest]

If you take up sailing there are no licenses required or examinations to be passed.
However, sailing is about promoting responsibility and independence INSTEAD of dependence ’.


Is the above now an outdated British quirk or should we be more realistic?

 

[ccscott49]

Whats this got to do with seastart?

 

[Guest]

Because Seastart and others like it, came about to make money, not to help sailors.

They will only help sailors who are willing to pay for this ( unlike the RNLI Red Cross etc). Or you could look at it from another viewpoint, they are fullfilling a need that sailors need - fair enough. This is the reason for raising this topic.

As far as I know car users do not have a free breakdown service like we have ( other yachsman, oneself, RNLI if serious).

Life is always a balance of compensations - you do one thing and it will effect something else. I am interested in the view of others and although I side on the view of independence in yachting, perhaps I should be more realistic.

 

[iangrant]

I joined but I never thought I'd need them - I had a minor fuel leak after an engine service (by a professional). He had left out the O ring seal from the "after pump" side. I was worried about trying to undo the nut and making it worse!

As we all know, small things have a habit of triggering a chain reaction of disasters.

We were coastal sailing so I called Sea Start - their rib met us at the Forts at Portsmouth and he had the pipe wrench to undo the nut, I had a spare O ring. - Easy - fixed.

We were in no danger, other than if the wind died leaving us drifting in the shipping entrance to Portsmouth/Southampton.

We did not endanger others, we were not in danger - we did not need or inform the coastguard or rely (as some others may do) on the RNLI.

Do we assume you have a large toolkit and won't ever need to rely on the emergency services?

Ian

 

[ccscott49]

I thought seastart would only come out to marinas and the like to make minor repairs and get your engine started etc, I didn't think they would come out to a yacht with engine failure in the middle of the channel, they aren't like the AA or something are they? thought they were more like the "Homestart" part of the AA. The RNLI would also not like to be referred to as a "Breakdown service" and shouldn't be considered as one, as I'm sure you don't. They are an emergency service and the more we think of them as such the better it will be. Some people do not have a mechanical bent, I have met some very fine sailors, who are engine dunces and no amount of training woulod make them anything different, some people have it some don't. Also one does have a free breakdown service for cars, just as you said, other sailors, other motorists. I tend to rely on the number one service, my own arse!

 

[blackbird]

Are marine engineers a copout?

I guess they are in it to make money, not to help sailors. And they make the money because they know more about engines than your average sailor. Or is it "dependence" to use their services. If it isn't, why is Seastart so different? And isn't there something to be said for making your own provisions against reliance on the RNLI if you have a problem with the engine? That sounds more like independence to me.

Of course there is the old argument "so why can't they sail home?" Why indeed. But situations do arise where this isn't possible. If you have a mooring in Portsmouth Harbour, for example.

I have used the services of Seastart once. They don't operate in my area any more. I was in a strong tide and a flat calm, with young kids on board. I have gone out of my way to learn as much as I can about the engine, but couldn't find what was wrong. The Seastart engineer talked me through a diagnostic procedure and I was able to make a repair to get us home. I was well pleased with the service. If Seastart had not been available I would have found another solution, as I had to recently when I was unable to beat up against a spring tide and force 7 wind to get home in time to cross the bar. Engine was troublesome, so I ran off and anchored in a river downwind to sort it out.

So, Vic - have you never used (and paid for) the services of a professional, or asked for advice, in your sailing life? Or are you independent?

 

[AndrewB]

Unfortunately, the RNLI *IS* a breakdown service.

Just watched yet another yacht being towed in with 'mechanical difficulties' yesterday evening. I think that makes 5 this month by our local lifeboat.

You don't have to call MAYDAY, just let the local CG know you are having some problems, and VROOM, out comes the lifeboat for a free tow in. A pleasant jaunt for them on a summer weekend, and a few more 'lives saved' to add to the tally.

I've supported the RNLI for many years but now am ashamed to do doorstep collections for them, because of the ineviable jibes about yachties asking the public to contribute to their free AA service.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Unfortunately, the RNLI *IS* a breakdown servi

I was almost amused last weekend to hear a mayday shout from a guy who had lost both engines and was drifting and in danger. When the CG asked him if he could drop an anchor, you could almost hear him scratching his head before confirming he could.

I've also noticed Portland CG now make lots of calls for 'any vessel in the vicinity of xxxx, able to assist a broken down yyyy with a tow". Often the yyyy = sportsboat. Maybe the local RNLI have got better things to do an a sunny weekend?

 

[iangrant]

Re: Unfortunately, the RNLI *IS* a breakdown service.

I've had the same response on an RNLI doorstep collection - (along with some kind Lady proclaiming that she didn't have a boat)

Solent Coastguard have been heard to say "do you belong to Sea Start?" so a little diversion away from the RNLI callout there, for the better?

Let us support the RNLI and leave them to do their job - a rescue service - not a breakdown service!

Ian

 

[snooks]

Seastart is like a breakdown service, a lot of their calls are about fuel problems, blocked filters basicly things that could be avoided or fixed by the owner, from jammed furling mainsails to technical knowledge on the end of a phone/VHF.

Sure they are in it to make money, but just the way the RAC or AA are, I'm not a mechanic so I joined the AA, when my car breaks down and needs a tow I call them, not my friend or a passing motorist...if this is a copout, then fine I can live with being a copout...if the same service is available on the water, I'd take it out...Seastart have most of the channel covered, the same way the AA have the country covered. I'd feel better calling out Seastart than I would the RNLI,

I consider the RNLI for emergencies only, just like the Ambulance service....

Unfortunatly there are ppl out there who abuse the ambulance service in the same way

 

[dickh]

I agrre the RNLI is for emergencies only. As far as I know we do not have SeaStart in our area,(East Coast) not enough boats? Other boaters and local fishermen are more than happy to give you a tow if required. But the best is to be self reliant and carry spare filters, vee belts, impellors etc so you can get yourself going again.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Gunfleet]

You can keep your sea start. I had an engine prob recently and couldn't get home - the creek is full of moorings and I couldn't tack up it. A fisherman towed me up it and when I offered to pay said he thought the best solution was if I bought a stone of dover soles off him! Fantastic value and both parties satisfied. Of course, we are going to be eating dover sole from the freezer for some time... his idea of a stone was well over 20 lbs. What a nice guy.

 

[Guest]

South Coast v The Rest

Thanks for the response Blackbird and welcome to the forum.

I know very little about engines and have had to sail back to my mooring on three occasions when the damn thing refused to start. I would not count myself as a particularly good sailor either. To get home, on all but one occasion, I had to do a lot of waiting just like the old timers had to do.

I think that the difference between you and I is probably location. The South Coast is so crowded with boats sailing, motor boats, moorings and marinas that anyone sailing back to base would have to wait until Monday to attempt to sail home without an engine.

If I was being seen towed home ( East Coast) by my mates more than a couple of miles away I would probably be duffed up. But we have the room to do these things.

I still feel that we should say to hell with work and sail home anyway providing there are no great dangers. It upholds the time honoured ways and best of all you can bore the pants of everybody for years to come !

Happy Sailing !



I do own a boat that was designed to be sailed rather than motored and built on old fashioned lines nearly 30 year's ago.lines

 

[ToMo]

Good grief!...you don't produce that much wind do you?........um were did you say you say you where?
<CG>

TôMö

 

[Guest]

As mentioned to Blackbird, your location does not lend itself to self reliance as it does to us bods in the sticks . You lot also seem to be very rich down there and can afford things like Seastart. But engines came in a bit later elsewhere and us country bumpkins still like to prove that we can still hack it under sail.

Have you no shame down there ?

p.s. I am very very pleased that the RNLI exist.

 

[Guest]

Do stinkies = Bigger Balls ?

I pose this question to you Scottie !

In my book they do. Take only one mean's of propulsion into the shower ?

Although you see many smaller motorboats with outboards as back up, many still go out there with only one ! I'd hate it.

In my book they should forget sea start and carry a DIY 'get you home' sailing kit. Fancy coming in with me to market it ?

A butterfly is a bug that took a chance !

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Do stinkies = Bigger Balls ?

Careful, I've a motorsailer, best of both worlds, two engines and two masts, I can sail, but need a fair amount of wind to do so, a bit short in the mast (and legs actually) But The outboard you see hanging on the back of some of those boats, is a DIY get home kit! But some of the motor and sail guys should also learn how to use the dinghy and outboard as a means of propulsion. I actually saw a motorboat under tow, with a big inflatable and 30hp outboard hanging in the davits???? unless it of course was buggered aswell! Mind you could you imagine a sunseeker predator, with an effing big mast stuck in the middle? DFon't think we'd have many takers for the DIY sail kit!! Good idea though!

 

[ccscott49]

Bugger! You're too far away and I love dover sole!!!

 

[iangrant]

Oh yes Viv - we have shame, but we also have Container Ships, War Ships, Ferries (cross channel & Local), Fast Cats, Hovercraft, some fuel tankers big enough to block out the sun.

Add to that the fact that most of the big stuff comes through "the Forts" which is the entrance gap into the Solent some 100 metres wide.

Add to that the local Portsmouth Harbour byelaw that sailing vessels must have their engines running past the number X can. (can't remember without the chart here, but it's written on the small craft channel bouy)

Oh and tides that run out of small entrances at 5 knots (with 2.0M MLSW) wind shadowed.

Take that lot into consideration and it is quite nice to have a little backup and that is the first time I've called them out!

I envy your peace and solitude for sailing unfettered

Ian

 

[blackbird]

Speaking as one of \"the rest\"

Thank you for the welcome. However, I should say that I, too, sail a proper sailing boat on the East Coast and that I, too, can and do sail it on an off moorings, onto pontoons etc. However, as I run my own business, upon which the livelihood of my family depends, it is not, perhaps, quite so easy for me to say "to hell with work" as it may be for you.

Seastart did operate briefly in this area. The cost was very little in the context of the overall cost of running a boat and I was glad of it on the occasion I described. I'm afraid I simply cannot understand why you should think it's a "copout" to get some help to fix one's own engine, or call pay for a tow if it's ultimately necessary, and not a "copout" to get a tow from a "mate" or a fisherman. Why is one in some way less "dependent" than the other?

Sorry, Vic, but there's a hint of the patronising and of the "holier than thou" here which often pops up on these boards and tends to keep me off them. But here, I really do have to disagree with you.