Imray to stop publishing paper charts

[RunAgroundHard]

As the whole gamut of navigational information goes online, digital subscription becomes dominant. They might not be able to compete digitally with other apps in their sector. They could also be eliminating significant overhead in order to better fund their digital ambitions.

Others in this forum have commented favourably about their Apps.

 

[westward]

Just had an email stating Imray are to stop publishing paper charts from next year due to the increasing reliance on electronic navigation systems. Shame as I always preferred them to Admiralty charts which will then be the only backup available.

For any longer passage, I always use a paper chart to check my route. The reason for this is that obstacles do not disappear from a paper chart when you zoom out. I suspect part of the reason for Vesta's grounding during the Ocean Race was the navigator not being able to check the route on a paper chart. I don't know why this issue is not better addressed in electronic charts. I bought a couple of new Imray paper chart this year. Sorry to hear they are stopping.

 

[requiem]

I don't know why this issue is not better addressed in electronic charts.

Such an obstacle should not disappear when zoomed out, and in the official ENCs for the area the reefs are indeed visible when zoomed out. It is no different from having two paper charts of different scales, where a feature is on one but left off the other.

The closest issue that remains is the SCAMIN (Scale Minimum) attribute, which can result in items being dropped when zooming out if not set appropriately when the chart is compiled. For this reason users are advised to disable it when reviewing a route. Vestas was using 3rd party charts, and only licensed the complete set on one of the two computers they had aboard.

 

[onesea]

Such an obstacle should not disappear when zoomed out,

However they do.

I use MemoryMap as they are Rasta Style charts alongside good old navionics which has some great, features.

@Roberto your almost selling them to me, the other option for home made us too print A4 and stick them together.

I don't have the patient's to do it for myself. I can generally remember enough and manage, only a few hiccups along the way.

 

[dunedin]

However they do.

I use MemoryMap as they are Rasta Style charts alongside good old navionics which has some great, features.

@Roberto your almost selling them to me, the other option for home made us too print A4 and stick them together.

I don't have the patient's to do it for myself. I can generally remember enough and manage, only a few hiccups along the way.

I also use Memory Map with raster charts on my iPad alongside Navionics on my main ships plotters. As you say, raster are better for some things - eg pinnacle rocks rising out of deep water, very difficult to spot in Navionics, particularly on a sunny day.

But be warned that raster charts, as used by Memory Map, Visit My Harbour etc, will almost certainly die when the equivalent paper charts are eventually withdrawn by UKHO. As noted above, it is making these source raster charts that is the expensive bit for both Imray and UKHO.

 

[requiem]

However they do.

Indeed, and it's hard to argue against that, but it's also something that can happen with paper.

If, for example, someone purchased a small-scale planning chart, then after reviewing it and purchasing more detailed charts for the areas that indicated potential hazards, then you might similarly miss a feature omitted from the planning chart. Chart error happens.

Some features should be called out, at least in some form, at all levels of zoom. Here's what I meant about the Cargados Carajos Shoals appearing on even the smallest-scale overview charts:

 

[westward]

Such an obstacle should not disappear when zoomed out, and in the official ENCs for the area the reefs are indeed visible when zoomed out. It is no different from having two paper charts of different scales, where a feature is on one but left off the other.

The closest issue that remains is the SCAMIN (Scale Minimum) attribute, which can result in items being dropped when zooming out if not set appropriately when the chart is compiled. For this reason users are advised to disable it when reviewing a route. Vestas was using 3rd party charts, and only licensed the complete set on one of the two computers they had aboard.

I've never heard of Scale Minimum. Sounds like a useful thing. I don't see it anywhere in the menus of my plotter or in the Garmin doc. What system are you using? I suspect that the way Garmin charts are structured this wouldn't be possible.

 

[requiem]

I've never heard of Scale Minimum. Sounds like a useful thing. I don't see it anywhere in the menus of my plotter or in the Garmin doc. What system are you using? I suspect that the way Garmin charts are structured this wouldn't be possible.

You can find a few more details in this post: Role of SCAMIN on ENC

In brief, I'm using apps like SEAiq or OpenCPN with ENC charts from HOs, which is very different from what your average plotter supports.

Many of the questions people raise in these "charts are going away" discussions have already been hammered out as standards on the professional side for quite some years now. They have unfortunately largely been ignored on the leisure side.

For example, the concept of the "isolated danger" indicator was introduced to tackle problems such as rock pinnacles that might otherwise be missed.

 

[westward]

You can find a few more details in this post: Role of SCAMIN on ENC

In brief, I'm using apps like SEAiq or OpenCPN with ENC charts from HOs, which is very different from what your average plotter supports.

Many of the questions people raise in these "charts are going away" discussions have already been hammered out as standards on the professional side for quite some years now. They have unfortunately largely been ignored on the leisure side.

For example, the concept of the "isolated danger" indicator was introduced to tackle problems such as rock pinnacles that might otherwise be missed.
View attachment 185660

I am looking at replacing my present nav system which is based on two Garmin GPSmap 4008s. This system has served me well and took me round the world but the plotters are now classed as legacy products and are becoming less and less usable.
I have OpenCPN on a PC which I use for route planning and displaying grib files. The charts on this are out of date and there is no easy way to upgrade them.
I am quite keen on replacing this system with a PC based system using something like OpenCPN. What would you suggest? How easy is it to get HO charts? My boat is presently based in the Med. Where would I go for charts of this area? I like having the plotter on the binnacle as well as at the chart table. Do you have a suggestion of how to do that with a PC (or tablet I guess) based solution?

 

[requiem]

I am quite keen on replacing this system with a PC based system using something like OpenCPN. What would you suggest? How easy is it to get HO charts? My boat is presently based in the Med. Where would I go for charts of this area? I like having the plotter on the binnacle as well as at the chart table. Do you have a suggestion of how to do that with a PC (or tablet I guess) based solution?

For OpenCPN, I'd start with o-charts | Charts for OpenCPN for charts. The oeSENC products are (as best I understand) simply a package deal for an "unofficial" copy of official charts. The update frequency varies from country to country, e.g. it could be weekly or quarterly. (Also, as some posts have alluded to, official charts tend to be focused on commercial shipping; 3rd party products like Navionics may have better detail for areas of interest to leisure boaters.

You'll likely get better/current advice from places like CruisersForum, but the binnacle is one location for which the MFDs are well-suited. Absent a bimini or some sort of hood, a tablet-based solution runs the risk of not being bright enough, or even overheating in direct sun. (This also means you need to ensure the charging ability is enough to keep up with the screen at full brightness.) Similarly, most tablets don't dim sufficiently for night use. There are ways around this, such as the "reduce white point" option on iOS devices, but it requires a bit of digging.

One idea that comes to mind, should the budget permit, is an industrial display unit such as this one: 10.1" IP65 Touchscreen LCD Monitor HDMI, DVI, VGA & AV (I found the link from a very old post, so current market offerings may be much different, possibly even improved.)

If you have radar then retaining an MFD for it would also make sense. Some radars are supported by OpenCPN, but I like the idea of a more "direct" display for purposes of reliability and redundancy. For example, I'll often leave the MFD set to display radar whilst using phone or tablet for the chartwork.

 

[westward]

For OpenCPN, I'd start with o-charts | Charts for OpenCPN for charts. The oeSENC products are (as best I understand) simply a package deal for an "unofficial" copy of official charts. The update frequency varies from country to country, e.g. it could be weekly or quarterly. (Also, as some posts have alluded to, official charts tend to be focused on commercial shipping; 3rd party products like Navionics may have better detail for areas of interest to leisure boaters.

You'll likely get better/current advice from places like CruisersForum, but the binnacle is one location for which the MFDs are well-suited. Absent a bimini or some sort of hood, a tablet-based solution runs the risk of not being bright enough, or even overheating in direct sun. (This also means you need to ensure the charging ability is enough to keep up with the screen at full brightness.) Similarly, most tablets don't dim sufficiently for night use. There are ways around this, such as the "reduce white point" option on iOS devices, but it requires a bit of digging.

One idea that comes to mind, should the budget permit, is an industrial display unit such as this one: 10.1" IP65 Touchscreen LCD Monitor HDMI, DVI, VGA & AV (I found the link from a very old post, so current market offerings may be much different, possibly even improved.)

If you have radar then retaining an MFD for it would also make sense. Some radars are supported by OpenCPN, but I like the idea of a more "direct" display for purposes of reliability and redundancy. For example, I'll often leave the MFD set to display radar whilst using phone or tablet for the chartwork.

Thanks for the advice. Good point about brightness and night sailing. I had thought about robustness and water proofing of tablets or screens but not that.
So does this mean that you have a hybrid system with both OpenCPN and Navionics or similar? This resembles what I have already. One of the problems is that Garmin charts are not readable by other systems including OpenCPN so that I have to have separate maps for that. This could be expensive especially if you are doing long distance cruising. Is there a solution where you can use the same charts on OpenCPN and your plotter?
Can you network your PC and your plotter? My plotters are on the NMEA network. My PC is linked by WiFi to my Vesper AIS which is the WiFi hub which is also connected to the NMEA network. However my PC can't talk to my plotters. I have to transfer routes to SD cards to upload routes to the plotters.

 

[requiem]

Can you network your PC and your plotter? My plotters are on the NMEA network. My PC is linked by WiFi to my Vesper AIS which is the WiFi hub which is also connected to the NMEA network. However my PC can't talk to my plotters. I have to transfer routes to SD cards to upload routes to the plotters.

I'm mainly on various club boats so configurations vary. Raymarine setups are nice, but their wifi doesn't pass NMEA data so you'd need to add a separate wifi (or ethernet) gateway. B&G wifi does allow NMEA, so with that my mobile devices can consume the instrument data directly. I would suspect your existing wifi hub similarly provides this functionality.

From recollection, in some cases OpenCPN can control an autopilot (i.e. sending commands to the control head). Sending routes to the plotters seems from a quick glance to be more problematic. I've heard mention of B&G having an anonymous FTP option that would let you upload directly to the plotter (or to the inserted memory card). Similarly, OpenCPN has a way to export route and waypoint information to Garmin hardware, but I'd treat that as a rumor until you can find someone who can reliably get it working.

Sharing charts is messier: if you use 3rd party charts like Navionics, they'll only want to share within their own ecosystem of apps/hardware, and even partition that between plotters and mobile apps. ENC charts are often licensed with very tight copy-prevention controls, meaning you can only use them on two specific systems, or sometimes with a portable dongle. The root of this issue is copyright control, which makes it rather intractable.

 

[westward]

I'm mainly on various club boats so configurations vary. Raymarine setups are nice, but their wifi doesn't pass NMEA data so you'd need to add a separate wifi (or ethernet) gateway. B&G wifi does allow NMEA, so with that my mobile devices can consume the instrument data directly. I would suspect your existing wifi hub similarly provides this functionality.

From recollection, in some cases OpenCPN can control an autopilot (i.e. sending commands to the control head). Sending routes to the plotters seems from a quick glance to be more problematic. I've heard mention of B&G having an anonymous FTP option that would let you upload directly to the plotter (or to the inserted memory card). Similarly, OpenCPN has a way to export route and waypoint information to Garmin hardware, but I'd treat that as a rumor until you can find someone who can reliably get it working.

Sharing charts is messier: if you use 3rd party charts like Navionics, they'll only want to share within their own ecosystem of apps/hardware, and even partition that between plotters and mobile apps. ENC charts are often licensed with very tight copy-prevention controls, meaning you can only use them on two specific systems, or sometimes with a portable dongle. The root of this issue is copyright control, which makes it rather intractable.

Thanks for this reply. I could basically use my PC with OpenCPN as my navigation. It gets the position from the Vesper and displays AIS targets as well. I can also use it to display grib files and theoretically even do routing using the grib files (it doesn't work for small cruising boats in my limited experience). In fact it is already my backup nav system.
I could ditch the Garmin plotters and simply get current maps for OpenCPN. I don't control the auto-pilot from the plotters, though it is possible with the Garmin system as long as I am motoring. My problem is having an active device on the binnacle in this configuration. I haven't seen any practical robust way to do this yet which doesn't mean having what is effectively a second nav system.
I have some neighbours in the marina who have an Octopus system which runs on a PC. However they don't have any nav display at all in the cockpit except the usual course, speed, wind readouts. OK if you have a crew but I am usually single handed.