Imray to stop publishing paper charts

[AntarcticPilot]

UKHO did a u-turn though. POD charts are there until they state otherwise

And I think that POD may be the only commercially viable way forward. The OS moved to that for all but the most popular products long ago; most of their business now is the sale of data. I do wonder if a viable business plan would be for businesses such as chandlers or marina's to buy a suitable and approved printing set up (A0 printer with suitable ink and paper, and a pc to download print files) with a franchise arrangement. The cost of the equipment would probably work out about the same as the cost of maintaining a stock of charts, with less wastage as old charts become unsaleable. It would have the advantage from a user's point of view that the chart would always be the latest issue, with potentially a much shorter interval between versions.

But it still requires most of the production team for the charts to be maintained; printing is probably the least costly part of the process!

 

[Sandy]

UKHO did a u-turn though. POD charts are there until they state otherwise

What's the latest price for a chart? I moved to Imray on chatting to my Chart Agent and looking at the cost of a wee trip to the Western Isles. I am a Scot and have a reputation to keep.

Is there anybody in France, perhaps @Koeketiene, who can advise us if anybody apart from NV does UK charts in folios? I am fed up of single charts flying around the saloon in a seaway. At least you could get the Imray folios spiral bound.

 

[Sandy]

And I think that POD may be the only commercially viable way forward. The OS moved to that for all but the most popular products long ago; most of their business now is the sale of data. I do wonder if a viable business plan would be for businesses such as chandlers or marina's to buy a suitable and approved printing set up (A0 printer with suitable ink and paper, and a pc to download print files) with a franchise arrangement. The cost of the equipment would probably work out about the same as the cost of maintaining a stock of charts, with less wastage as old charts become unsaleable. It would have the advantage from a user's point of view that the chart would always be the latest issue, with potentially a much shorter interval between versions.

But it still requires most of the production team for the charts to be maintained; printing is probably the least costly part of the process!

I know my Chart Agent has a big printer, but suspect that the high end paper and ink is expensive.

From time to time I do chart corrections for vessel that has an IMO number (International Maritime Organization) and all of that is done via a PC, printed bits of paper, a stick of Pritt, magenta pen and a stencil. A very therapeutic way of spending a day or two.

 

[lustyd]

What's the latest price for a chart?

I think we should focus on the fact that they’re available. In the grand scheme of boat ownership they don’t look expensive.

Long story short, it’s a lot.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I know my Chart Agent has a big printer, but suspect that the high end paper and ink is expensive.

From time to time I do chart corrections for vessel that has an IMO number (International Maritime Organization) and all of that is done via a PC, printed bits of paper, a stick of Pritt, magenta pen and a stencil. A very therapeutic way of spending a day or two.

Consumables aren't that much - a few pounds per chart for damp-proof paper. Ink costs are negligible on a per chart basis, but are a big investment. Large format printers usually have ink reservoirs unlike the ink cartridges of domestic printers, so you buy cartridges containing about a litre of ink! A full set of 4 (or more for some printers) is several hundred pounds, but that will last for thousands of prints. For UK yachting use UV resistant inks would be worthwhile; we never bothered as maps were regarded as consumables. That's a small extra cost.

But overall consumables costs are not great.

 

[dunedin]

UKHO did a u-turn though. POD charts are there until they state otherwise

I suspect that would be better phrased as “UKHO very reluctantly postponed their announcement on paper charts withdrawal, after being forced to do so by MCA”, this due to lots of organisations pointing out there wasn’t any approved for navigation electronic alternative.
Not certain that is what happened, but suspect so.

 

[westernman]

Consumables aren't that much - a few pounds per chart for damp-proof paper. Ink costs are negligible on a per chart basis, but are a big investment. Large format printers usually have ink reservoirs unlike the ink cartridges of domestic printers, so you buy cartridges containing about a litre of ink! A full set of 4 (or more for some printers) is several hundred pounds, but that will last for thousands of prints. For UK yachting use UV resistant inks would be worthwhile; we never bothered as maps were regarded as consumables. That's a small extra cost.

But overall consumables costs are not great.

I would not expect that a chandlers would do enough business to justify the investment into a high end printer for this kind of thing. However, you can get it printed via all kinds of printers such as Vistaprint.

Here is A0 waterproof for outside use:-
Impression d’affiches waterproof personnalisées

Not cheap if you are doing just one.

 

[penberth3]

I would not expect that a chandlers would do enough business to justify the investment into a high end printer for this kind of thing. However, you can get it printed via all kinds of printers such as Vistaprint.

Here is A0 waterproof for outside use:-
Impression d’affiches waterproof personnalisées

Not cheap if you are doing just one.

I don't know where the chandler idea came from. The way to go is local printers who already have the gear and the knowledge to use it properly.

 

[requiem]

The way to go is local printers who already have the gear and the knowledge to use it properly.

Is there a regulatory hurdle here? I know in some places the printers must themselves be properly vetted and approved for the charts to count as "official".

 

[Sandy]

I would not expect that a chandlers would do enough business to justify the investment into a high end printer for this kind of thing. However, you can get it printed via all kinds of printers such as Vistaprint.

Not chandlers, but chart agents do.

 

[penberth3]

Is there a regulatory hurdle here? I know in some places the printers must themselves be properly vetted and approved for the charts to count as "official".

Ordnance Survey have done similar for decades via stationers and printers. Other bodies do their stuff electronically as a one-off down the wire. I can't see a problem.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Is there a regulatory hurdle here? I know in some places the printers must themselves be properly vetted and approved for the charts to count as "official".

That's why I suggest dedicated and approved equipment.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I would not expect that a chandlers would do enough business to justify the investment into a high end printer for this kind of thing. However, you can get it printed via all kinds of printers such as Vistaprint.

Here is A0 waterproof for outside use:-
Impression d’affiches waterproof personnalisées

Not cheap if you are doing just one.

They invest at least as much as a suitable printer would cost in stocks of charts, some of which will never sell before they are replaced. Large format printers aren't that expensive; an A0 one would be fine for most charts, I think. A few thousand pounds, I think - I haven't checked lately, but even our ginormous 66" wide machine (way overkill for charts) was only about £15000.

To gain approval from the MCA would almost certainly require approval of the printing process, and full traceability from end to end. Involving a third party printer would probably not be approvable. I envisage a situation where the supplier effectively rents or buys a standalone system from the chart provider, in the manner of a franchise.

 

[Roberto]

a new format of chart.

Designed to compliment electronics and be useful for planning.
however with just enough info:
...

Having not found any, I make them myself, in particular for longer crossings.
A4 format (dictated by the size of my printer and laminating machine ), the background is a general raster chart, I add Metarea and coastal zone bulletin limits, point weather forecast positions (ex DWD RTTY points), weather buoys with codes, communication schedules, emphasis on important orography/bathymetry elements, high traffic density axes, extended range beacons, etc etc. 360° wind rose, lat/long scales for quick gps position plotting -usually noon- and all/most relevant features for navigation are immediately visible. Notes can be added by permanent and washable ink pens.
I would buy a larger size one if commercially available; missing that, making it has become a nice part of winter evenings passage preparation.

 

[westernman]

Having not found any, I make them myself, in particular for longer crossings.
A4 format (dictated by the size of my printer and laminating machine ), the background is a general raster chart, I add Metarea and coastal zone bulletin limits, point weather forecast positions (ex DWD RTTY points), weather buoys with codes, communication schedules, emphasis on important orography/bathymetry elements, high traffic density axes, extended range beacons, etc etc. 360° wind rose, lat/long scales for quick gps position plotting -usually noon- and all/most relevant features for navigation are immediately visible. Notes can be added by permanent and washable ink pens.
I would buy a larger size one if commercially available; missing that, making it has become a nice part of winter evenings passage preparation.

Here is a not too expensive option for A3:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-Work...ix=epson+workforce+pro+wf-7310,aps,126&sr=8-3

It is cheaper in France though.

 

[dunedin]

All the discussion about printing is kind of missing the point. The expensive bit that Imray are apparently withdrawing from is the compiling of the chart images in electronic format that can be sent to a printer - that requires lots of data sources, lots of work and skilled cartographers. Printing is the easy bit, but needs something there to print.

 

[B27]

What's the latest price for a chart? I moved to Imray on chatting to my Chart Agent and looking at the cost of a wee trip to the Western Isles. I am a Scot and have a reputation to keep.
....

UKHO give 75% discount above a certain number of A2 charts, which makes the old folios come out at about £60, but with the option of mix'n'match.
Get a chart from the neighbouring area, do a group buy with your mates, I think it's as cheap as it's ever been.

 

[requiem]

All the discussion about printing is kind of missing the point. The expensive bit that Imray are apparently withdrawing from is the compiling of the chart images in electronic format that can be sent to a printer - that requires lots of data sources, lots of work and skilled cartographers. Printing is the easy bit, but needs something there to print.

Looking on what the US has done, I think it's possible to get something "close enough" for the leisure sailor who's not subject to carriage requirements. Personally I'd not consider it sufficient, and suspect it occupies a market space that will be increasingly akin to an external USB floppy disk drive.

 

[Roberto]

Here is a not too expensive option for A3:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-WorkForce-WF-7310DTW-Printer-Replenishment/dp/B099KDRS6M/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2KGTRZ9NSU9X4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ZSbRJrQuzRmCWiM0GA59n1sJ3P3Srny4a8mRjPdCWAnFop66X1ch842oNGWt6tu1BesRTMfqsDvHGhb4z_N4sVX1scc4H2ygWiPSTBHP1M4Uun4Q0xiQOqMnZ41KyR1yIJQDYW9YJFJHvLkCntxqQ52TMdI5GDo7Y-aXWLpgIMo1WJKfI9jqBmqU90I_0YH2.WWK5X_twNkOlY9ngopUK28kl7ASO0qwQAl6rUNvGcBs&dib_tag=se&keywords=Epson+WorkForce+Pro+WF-7310&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1732047553&sprefix=epson+workforce+pro+wf-7310,aps,126&sr=8-3

It is cheaper in France though.

Thank you
I think I'd have to upgrade also all the rest of my home IT, from PCs to software to displays, all very basic (12" screen, etc): I made a chart with a portion of high resolution file of an old NOAA raster chart, added a few lines of my own (the thinnest available in MS Paint) and I went to a print shop to have it printed in A3 and it came out very very granular, sort of "Overzoom" effect everywhere. Definitely not ready to print good resolution charts bigger than A4 I am afraid

 

[requiem]

I made a chart with a portion of high resolution file of an old NOAA raster chart, added a few lines of my own (the thinnest available in MS Paint) and I went to a print shop to have it printed in A3 and it came out very very granular, sort of "Overzoom" everywhere.

Your hardware is likely fine; how familiar are you with printing in terms of image sizing, etc? If you're doing images, then pixel count is almost all that matters. Suppose you want a minimum print resolution of 300 dpi, then for an A3 print that means an image size of roughly 3500 x 5000 pixels. If dropping lines on it from Paint, be sure to zoom in significantly first (1:1 or better).