GPS, AIS, Fog would you set off?

[Poignard]

if we were completely risk adverse we would get all our sailing excitement from internet forums!

Yes, but would you cross the Channel in fog without radar or AIS?

 

[rotrax]

Yes, but would you cross the Channel in fog without radar or AIS?

We have done-before we had any-and would prefer not to.

BUT- as another poster said, it is the Skippers decision.

To be honest, it is less risky than my previous pastime of motorbike racing.

In fact, the fog has similar properties to being filled in with a kilo of wet sand exiting the first bend at the Muhldorf Longtrack-I had my goggles knocked off my face and sand in my eyes once.

Could see bugger all then as well.................................

 

[pmagowan]

Yes, but would you cross the Channel in fog without radar or AIS?

I suspect that if I found myself in fog crossing the channel without radar or AIS I would have no choice. This is the only situation I could imagine this occurring. I don't think I would be too keen to cross the channel in fog at all but I certainly would not consider setting out in fog without AIS and radar. I suspect I would take the opportunity to examine the local hospitality in more detail rather than set off into the soup.

 

[Poignard]

I I suspect I would take the opportunity to examine the local hospitality in more detail rather than set off into the soup.

Me too!

 

[Robin]

I have radar and AIS and have set off in dense fog from Canna. The weather was dead calm and I would not have have been confident without those aids but there was virtually no traffic and the main risk was getting tied up in a pot buoy. The radar is the most important thing in fog as the dead calm conditions it normally appears in allows you to pick up even minute objects like buoys. The AIS gives the added security that big scary boats are unlikely to flatten you without you at least having advanced warning. It is quite nice to be able to correlate the information from 2 or more systems to double check your calculations. I like seeing the radar overlap on the chart plotter with a nice picture of an AIS target following the appropriate dot on the screen. It is all quite reassuring but, of course, it is probably wiser not to venture out in fog at all but then if we were completely risk adverse we would get all our sailing excitement from internet forums!

Beware though of the kind of fog caused by cold water from the deeps meeting warm moist air up top after a change of tide. This is very common around the Channel Islands and especially off NW France around Ushant and Chenal Du Four. We were sailing there one time in a F6, us beating upwind up though the four channel and headed for a stopover at L'Aberwrac'h and when we saw the fast closing target we had been watching on radar saw that it was actually a small French yacht under spinnaker, I would guess our combined closing speed was around 13kts, maybe more as we were making 7kts closehauled ourselves. In this kind of fog that can come and worsens with wind it is hard to hear other boats because of the wave noises. When we later got to enter L'Aberwrac'h the fog was really thick but we had a GPS route set in a cockpit mounted plotter with tried and tested wpts so we could tweak our course to keep to a zero ground X-track error going in the narrow channel between two very sharp rocky reefs. radar helps but with the tidal current setting maybe 3-4kts sideways across our track from west to east as we went southish, our radar heading line on screen was pointing way right of the next of the few channel buoys that showed on the screen (the channel has day/night leading lines but you need good visibility to see those as they are distant and on land.. The real shocker once through the reefs bit was then encountering the Local race fleet of Hobie Cats all tacking outbound towards us.

 

[pmagowan]

Beware though of the kind of fog caused by cold water from the deeps meeting warm moist air up top after a change of tide. This is very common around the Channel Islands and especially off NW France around Ushant and Chenal Du Four. We were sailing there one time in a F6, us beating upwind up though the four channel and headed for a stopover at L'Aberwrac'h and when we saw the fast closing target we had been watching on radar saw that it was actually a small French yacht under spinnaker, I would guess our combined closing speed was around 13kts, maybe more as we were making 7kts closehauled ourselves. In this kind of fog that can come and worsens with wind it is hard to hear other boats because of the wave noises. When we later got to enter L'Aberwrac'h the fog was really thick but we had a GPS route set in a cockpit mounted plotter with tried and tested wpts so we could tweak our course to keep to a zero ground X-track error going in the narrow channel between two very sharp rocky reefs. radar helps but with the tidal current setting maybe 3-4kts sideways across our track from west to east as we went southish, our radar heading line on screen was pointing way right of the next of the few channel buoys that showed on the screen (the channel has day/night leading lines but you need good visibility to see those as they are distant and on land.. The real shocker once through the reefs bit was then encountering the Local race fleet of Hobie Cats all tacking outbound towards us.

Fun and games! The only time that I have experienced windy fog was at Inistrahull off the north coast of Ireland. We were on the island having a barbecue having arrived on a rib. We saw a strange bank of fog rolling across the sea and so headed to the rib. We set off at full whack and watched the island be consumed behind us. We made landfall with the fog closing around us in a steady breeze. We had a GPS with rudimentary plotter so could retrace our steps as the harbour has a tricky entrance. Quite weird weather.

 

[RichV]

I was once due to leave St. Peter Port to go to Alderney when it was really quite misty. But I was encouraged by a friend on another yacht moored nearby saying, "Don't worry. I can see Sark from here."

So off I go. Working my way through the Little Russel was one of those character building experiences.

Much later that day, once safely on the beach in Alderney, I seek out my friend-of-useful-information (they left Guernsey some time after I did) and let him know how fun it was.

His response: "Yeah, sorry about that. Turned out it was the Condor ferry in the harbour entrance!"

 

[Dill et Bound]

I suppose the good thing about fog is that it keeps most people who don't know what they or doing in port.
I have Gps, Chart, Compass, Foghorn, Radar reflector, and due to my location copious amounts of it.
Would I set off in Fog?
Not unless I had to. Its really unpleasant stuff.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have earned a number of fog scare stories over the years but a lot depends where you are.
Mid channel can be a bit scary to say the least.
i had fog on the Belgian coast once & fog when I left Dover for Ramsgate ( had a job finding the east entrance it was so thick)
Both times I just followed the 3-5 fathom line & hoped I would not meet someone coming the other way using the same method
i think that getting into shallow water is the first safeguard - If one does not have any radar etc & there are no charted obstructions ( or uncharted ones!!!)

 

[PilotWolf]

Radar is not AIS and vice versa. One does not replace the other nor are they interchangeable.

Both have their limitations - the biggest common one is the user. The biggest with AIS is the fact that not all vessels have it and some that do use it incorrectly. However it certainly is NOT a toy.

Radar is passive in the manner that the targets don't have to do anything to be seen (given that some vessels don't show well) but it does need to be tuned properly and used to stay proficient.

I see no reason a leisure vessel MUST go in unfavorable weather. In the aviation world it's called get-home-itis and is one of the biggest cause of accidents.

PW

 

[michael_w]

Sailing along the Nova Scotia coast slayed the fog demons for me, there you can wait months for the fog to clear. Several days we sailed entirely by wire, on the whole trip we probably saw 5% of the coastline.

The combination of electronics ie: PC based plotter, AIS, Radar and fishfinder proved their worth. Biggest problem in poor visibility are other small boats with inadequete or non existant radar reflectors.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I do have GPS, active radar transponder and AIS (receive only). I don't have radar.

I would NOT set out in fog, unless the dangers of remaining put outweighed the danger of setting out. A sufficient danger of staying put would probably mean being anchored on a lee shore with iffy holding.

Rationale!

First, there are lots of boats out there that I cannot be aware of; most small fishing boats, and a lot of leisure craft. They aren't required to transmit AIS, and without radar I don't know they're there (OK, they should be making sound signals, but I bet they aren't!). They might have radar and be able to see me; but then again, they might not!

Second, if the waters are at all confined, I wouldn't rely on GPS to give me safe clearances from navigational markers or rocks. OK in the majority of places, but I wouldn't want to (for example) attempt a passage of the narrows at Burnt Island in the Kyles of Bute without good visibility. GPS has a large enough potential error to wreck me in that area.

Finally, if it's foggy where I am, what is it like where I'm going to? Most marina/harbour entrances are too narrow to safely enter using GPS alone.

Fog is something we would all manage if it came down during a passage, but setting off in seriously adverse conditions strikes me as unseamanlike.

 

[johnalison]

I do have GPS, active radar transponder and AIS (receive only). I don't have radar.

I would NOT set out in fog, unless the dangers of remaining put outweighed the danger of setting out. A sufficient danger of staying put would probably mean being anchored on a lee shore with iffy holding.

Rationale!

First, there are lots of boats out there that I cannot be aware of; most small fishing boats, and a lot of leisure craft. They aren't required to transmit AIS, and without radar I don't know they're there (OK, they should be making sound signals, but I bet they aren't!). They might have radar and be able to see me; but then again, they might not!

Second, if the waters are at all confined, I wouldn't rely on GPS to give me safe clearances from navigational markers or rocks. OK in the majority of places, but I wouldn't want to (for example) attempt a passage of the narrows at Burnt Island in the Kyles of Bute without good visibility. GPS has a large enough potential error to wreck me in that area.

Finally, if it's foggy where I am, what is it like where I'm going to? Most marina/harbour entrances are too narrow to safely enter using GPS alone.

Fog is something we would all manage if it came down during a passage, but setting off in seriously adverse conditions strikes me as unseamanlike.

There is fog and fog, but you have succeeded in explaining the difference between having radar and not having radar. I would not set out in fog deliberately unless I expected it to improved outside harbour, but I might well not be put off setting out when there was a possibility of poor visibility or perhaps fog on the way.

 

[STATUE]

Left Calais in the morning heading for Ramsgate, no sooner beyond the entry buoys to Calais than the fog clamped down.

10 Mins later saw the Cross Channel catarmaran at 40 knots off our stern - must have known where we were.

Much later, just coming out of the West going TSS lane - near East Goodwin Lightship we heard a deep QE2 style horn.

A 26 foot double ender, no radar BUT a SEAME that turns my boat into a 100,00 tonne tanker on any ships radar.

Lets not talk about it, just do it !

 

[Uricanejack]

I am a little surprised by the answers. Most would not set out with or without GPS AIS even with RADAR. Which is wise. Nobody would change their decision based on having GPS or AIS. I thought more people would head out. I also expected there would be quite a few who wouldn't go without GPS, AIS but would go with them.

I do have a GPS on my boat as yet if foggy I have not gone anywhere. I do have a RADAR which is not currently working. Even with the RADAR I would prefer to stay put and wait for a nice day.

I can’t say I wouldn’t go out in fog because in the past I have crossed the Channel in fog. It was in the forecast but we didn’t encounter it until we were on our way. Like others it was back in the pree satellite days all we had was a RDF. It worked.

My previous boat I did one long motor home in heavy rain and poor visibility but it was not quite fog. Oddly in some ways crossing the straights I might be more at risk from a large vessel in heavy rain my little 24fter would be lost in the clutter. But I could see far enough to see them.

I also have a small runabout for fishing, I never take it out in fog although I have had it set in on me while out. When I saw the fog bank I went back in. all I have on it’s a compass and a fish finder.
Yet a lot of guys who fish the same area seam happy to head out with a handheld GPS.
I must admit I think its nuts.