Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash

[AntarcticPilot]

Might incur some wrath but ere goes ; I have observed that Accidents or Incidents can easily happen when a Driver, Skipper, Helm, of a Car, Mini Bus or Boat gets too involved in enjoying the Thrills n Spills or just banter and jokes amoungst the Passengers on any Vessel or Car/Bus; seen it happen when say a Scout Group are on a Jolly in a Mini Bus and the Driver joins in the Jollies = so not paying sufficient attention to the Driving and Roads ahead.

No way of knowing wether this was a factor in the Incident (certainly not an Accident untill any report states so) then again just hope that any Investigation is Thourough and Detailed plus performed by suitable persons ?

Moral to be learnt so far is most probably, stay off the Mobile or VHF whist at speed, plus do not Hog the Airwaves its not good practice. Whatever some might say ! Also watch out for DH who are using any hand held communication devices

If you read the reports of air accidents, one commonly listed contributory cause is "lack of a sterile cockpit" - in other words, the crew were chatting amongst themselves and not paying sufficient attention to what was going on around them. It might not seem like much, but even small distractions can be important when things are happening quickly. When I'm driving, I often tell people not to talk to me while I'm doing anything slightly tricky, like crossing a junction. driving in a town I don't know, dealing with heavy traffic on a motorway etc.

Even on the boat (max speed about 7 knots!), I prefer to keep conversation to essentials when manoeuvring in close quarters, even if I'm only doing 1-2 knots!

 

[JumbleDuck]

If you read the reports of air accidents, one commonly listed contributory cause is "lack of a sterile cockpit" - in other words, the crew were chatting amongst themselves and not paying sufficient attention to what was going on around them. It might not seem like much, but even small distractions can be important when things are happening quickly.

In ye olden days, when (a) I travelled a lot between Edinburgh and London by air and (b) I was an active glider pilot and (c) flying Boeings into buildings wasn't a thing, I used to get the jump seat on BM or BA flights most weeks. The crew were always very chatty when they could be, but made it very clear when they needed to concentrate. Trying to talk then would not have helped with return invitations.

 

[RichardS]

Where did I state Drop the Anchor ?, Heave To was stated, its a Naughtical Term for putting the craft into Neutral and Taking Stock plus Taking Way Off the craft in an effort to realise whats what, reasses the way ahead, think through the sittuation, before proceeding further on, just the sort of action to take when considering making a Phone Call so that one's attention can be duly given to the Call.

Might ask what the hell you find to talk about on your HH whilst out on the water ? do you just take up the Airwaves with Chatter ?

If so is that not considered to be anti social and aginst the Principles of Good Vhf Use ?

This is a wind up, right?

Firstly, I have not said that you stated that one should drop the anchor to make a phone call. You said "stop driving" and dropping the anchor meets that criteria. However, that would be a ludicrous action to take just to make a phone call or use the h/h. In fact, just as ludicrous as heaving too .... which is why this must be a wind-up. Either that, or you've never actually been on a boat.

As for talking on one's h/h or mobile whilst out on the water, it is good etiquette to call ahead to a marina and advise them that you are approaching. They can then allocate a berth or have marineros ready or dispatch a rib according to their usual practice. I have never, ever seen or heard of a boat heaving-to to make this call. Do you?

Richard

 

[RichardS]

Apparently, it's 68 mph on expressways and 81 mph on freeways.

130 kph sounds right for the A1 which is the only motorway I use as it goes all the way from Zagreb to Split and, I think, on to Dubrovnik. In fact, it might be the only motorway the Croatians have but as it's a long thin country that's all that's needed, I guess.

Richard

 

[RJJ]

What law do you think prevents speculation about matters under police investigation before any charges have been made?

Whether we should speculate is a different question, of course, as are matters of taste and language.

First, it's the one about being tried by twelve of your peers. It has been around for a while. If the meeja (including this forum) has been stacked with conjecture and falsehoods, regardless of intention, there is the risk that independently-minded jurors cannot be found.

Second, it's the laws around libel. If forumites state things that are not true, and if those things harm the reputation of the driver or the operator, they may be entitled to seek damages from either the forum hosts or the writer, depending (I think) on who is considered to have editorial control.

So you can say what you want, but there may be consequences.

 

[JumbleDuck]

First, it's the one about being tried by twelve of your peers. It has been around for a while. If the meeja (including this forum) has been stacked with conjecture and falsehoods, regardless of intention, there is the risk that independently-minded jurors cannot be found.

Jurors are, I gather, asked if they have seen any pre-trial speculation and, if so, whether they can disregard it. This thread has ten thousand views over ten pages; if we assume, conservatively, that that represents 1,000 different people it's roughly 0.002% of potential jurors, should there be a trial.

Second, it's the laws around libel. If forumites state things that are not true, and if those things harm the reputation of the driver or the operator, they may be entitled to seek damages ...

Of course. In such matters it is best to take ones shoes off and tread warily.

 

[duncan99210]

The rules for contempt of court are pretty simple but they don’t kick in at all until charges have been brought against someone or some company. Then they’re pretty draconian: virtually no discussion until the verdict is reached. Until then, the matters surrounding the case can be freely discussed.
In these forums, the threads about a case are usually removed or locked as soon as charges are brought. That happened over the Cheeki Rafiki case, which generated far more heat than this thread has.
This thread seems to be focused less on the facts of the case (of which there are precious few in the public domain) and more on distractions whilst driving or helming. So little opportunity for the commission of libel against the operators of the craft involved. And given the experience of the CR case, if the lawyers overseeing this forum are in anyway worried about what’s being said, we will either be warned to tone things down or the thread will be locked or removed.

 

[TernVI]

I very much doubt the RIB driver was using his phone or a h/h VHF at speed.
Have you ever tried it?
Even in a modest RIB with 60HP on the back, as a passenger, you won't hold a conversation unless the sea is dead flat or you're going fairly slowly. I know this, I've done enough mark laying to say that.
Yes we do fairly frequently end up slowing the boat to speak to the committee boat.
That's why people like RNLI crew have headsets.

 

[[178529]]

Most of the comments on here, other than the one strange one about mobile phones, have been in the general.

They have been people's views about ribs, the Solent, risk generally and commercial licencing.

I think at this stage it is quite valid to express views about that. My view is that it isn't a good idea generally to market thrill / extreme rides on a rib to the public. Others gave a completely well reasoned opposite view. All good healthy debate.

 

[Birdseye]

"A commercial trip run by a local company" with a dozen people on board so, presumably a professional driving. He's going to be asked some awkward questions and the wrong answers could easily lead to a manslaughter charge. I'm not saying he was negligent - a mechanical fault or a medical issue is always possible - but it has to be a possibility.

Condolences to the bereaved and wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured

How about a simple mistake? Or dont you make them? It seems to be a modern pattern to try to find someone to blame for absolutely everything.

 

[mm42]

just hope that any Investigation is Thourough and Detailed plus performed by suitable persons

You should read a few MAIB reports to understand just how thorough and detailed they are. As a professional I read each one as they’re published, you can learn an awful lot from mistakes made by others, mistakes which have often proved to be fatal.

They go into great detail, testing reconstructions of failed equipment, having similar vessels try similar manoeuvres etc. No stone is left unturned.

 

[Time Out]

Oen another angle here is that a number of people (myself included) saw the video of the accident in its entirety, granted it was from a distance but it was witnessed through the eyes of an iPhone.

 

[JumbleDuck]

How about a simple mistake? Or dont you make them? It seems to be a modern pattern to try to find someone to blame for absolutely everything.

No, it's the modern pattern not to write off negligence as a simple mistake. Of course simple mistakes do happen, but even then people who don't allow for them may be negligent ...

 

[Blue Sunray]

Most of the comments on here, other than the one strange one about mobile phones, have been in the general.

They have been people's views about ribs, the Solent, risk generally and commercial licencing.

I think at this stage it is quite valid to express views about that. My view is that it isn't a good idea generally to market thrill / extreme rides on a rib to the public. Others gave a completely well reasoned opposite view. All good healthy debate.

However that post that stated as a fact (without any caveats IIRC) that the helm was on their mobile was prima face defamatory, unless (of course) that was in fact the case.

 

[Black Sheep]

Hope the coding gets changed!
That’s fookin mental! Accident waiting to happen!!! 45kn RIB.
Skipper on his phone :-(

Skipper on his phone?

I can only say what I have heard from the horse’s mouth/ RIB builder is MOBILE phone.

cstewart37 - I'm struggling to understand your posts.
Are you saying that the skipper of the rib involved in the fatal accident was on his mobile phone at the time?
And you know this from "the horses's mouth" - who's that? the skipper? or the person who built the rib?

 

[Blue Sunray]

cstewart37 - I'm struggling to understand your posts.
Are you saying that the skipper of the rib involved in the fatal accident was on his mobile phone at the time?
And you know this from "the horses's mouth" - who's that? the skipper? or the person who built the rib?

TI Media are being brave in leaving the original post on the Forum, maybe they know it is true.

 

[Sandy]

No way of knowing wether this was a factor in the Incident (certainly not an Accident untill any report states so) then again just hope that any Investigation is Thourough and Detailed plus performed by suitable persons ?

Having written a few, not for the AAIB or MAIB, may I suggest you don't have a clue.

 

[[178529]]

One other general comment I will make. Having seen photos of these ribs with the seats in front of the helm and the helm way at the back, the forward visibility does look a little compromised especially for a short helm and running bow up.

 

[Black Sheep]

TI Media are being brave in leaving the original post on the Forum, maybe they know it is true.

I'm trying to establish whether cstewart37 is really saying what everyone thinks s/he is saying. It's possible s/he meant something else entirely and everyone's got the wrong end of the stick. In which case no deliberate libel, but imho that post would need amending pdq.

 

[Resolution]

I'm trying to establish whether cstewart37 is really saying what everyone thinks s/he is saying. It's possible s/he meant something else entirely and everyone's got the wrong end of the stick. In which case no deliberate libel, but imho that post would need amending pdq.

Can't comment on what cstewart37 was meaning, but pretty sure s/he is a he. From the website of Redbay Powerboating:

"Charles Stewart has spent many years within the Marine Industry.
Charles is a qualified Commercial Yachtmaster Power, Advanced Powerboat instructor, VHF Radio Instructor and qualified to teach theory up to Yachtmaster. Charles is also a current member of Red Bay Lifeboat serving as Helmsman and Station mechanic. Redbay Powerboating was established in 2007 as an RYA recognised training centre for powerboating. Customers have availed of the centre from Ireland, Scotland, England, Channel Islands, Austria and Norway. Charles has competed in various RIB events throughout Scotland and Ireland and has completed navigation around Scotland and Ireland. "