Do boat owners tell the truth

[Bristolfashion]

Is there such a thing as lying by omission? I think not.

I think a seller in his description either to a broker or to a potential buyer is duty bound not to tell any falsehoods or lies but neither is he obliged to point out defects unless specifically questioned or asked about them either specifically or generally which is where the OPs question then becomes relevant. I am sure some would hide behind a statement of I did not know or wasn't aware where others will answer truthfully some even before the questions are posed. In the end it's down to the potential buyer and his surveyor to ascertain whether there are any defects substantial or not rather than completely rely on any answers from the seller who as said can disclaim knowledge and it would be difficult to prove that he was aware of anything that was not immediately and glaringly obvious.

What if "widget A" blows every month or so at a cost of £500? Do you declare this or stick a new one in and pass on the problem?

What about a horror that you've uncovered - and then quickly glassed back in?

 

[jordanbasset]

There is a difference between cars and boats in that car salesmen are traditionally just behind estate agents in terms of unreliability, whereas boat-owners have taken part in a sporting activity, in which at least some trace of Corinthian values or sticking to the rules might be expected, if sometimes unjustifiably.

I was thinking more of private car owners selling their cars

 

[jbweston]

Leaving aside lying and deliberate evasion, one problem is people's different perceptions about what matters and what doesn't. For example, some people have a higher tolerance than others for things that don't work well, or don't look as good as they might. So even when a seller is reasonably honest, the fact that his engine burns oil, or that his stern gland drips, or the mainsail luff rope sticks in the mast when the sail is lowered genuinely doesn't bother him. He honestly believes the boat is in good condition and doesn't think to mention the (to him) trivial issues.

And then there is different use. Someone who day sails might not realise that his oven won't light or that his battery capacity is insufficient to run the nav lights and radar overnight.

My father loved acquiring what he called 'a bargain' in cars, boats, property and much else. Often that meant something with a low price because of disadvantages or defects compared to other superficially similar things available in the market but where the disadvantages or defects weren't things he cared about. Which suited him fine until he came to sell them, when potential buyers offered a low price or were put off entirely because the defects he didn't care about mattered to them. One example was the he bought a 'bargain' property with the M6 running past the bottom of its (admittedly large) garden. No problem to him. When he came to sell it again he couldn't understand why potential buyers were few and far between.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

What if "widget A" blows every month or so at a cost of £500? Do you declare this or stick a new one in and pass on the problem?

What about a horror that you've uncovered - and then quickly glassed back in?

As I said you are under no obligation, it's down to individuals.
If you are asking personally I will give you an example: I sold a boat which had a non structural bulkhead which had been confirmed by the manufacture / builder when I bought her. As a result of being previously lifted and not on the sling marks there was some movement that har caused some tabbing to move and a piece of trim ( like a skirting board to split. Everything had been put to rights except the trim which had a longitudinal split in it. I lived with it and actually forgot about it. However when I put the boat up for sale and a buyers survey was due and I was removing the last of my personal effects I genuinely suddenly noticed it and asked my broker should I:

Repair it / get it repaired professionally, something like 15" of teak skirting board with a crack in it

Mention it to the buyer

His response was leave it say nothing, the surveyor will find it or not and we will deal with it at that time.

As things turned out he was an incredibly pernickety surveyor made a list as long as your arm of nonentities for the buyers to use in negotiation but missed that. I didn't feel obliged to say anything after that.

 

[LittleSister]

Perhaps work on the assumption that everything is broken but you don't know it yet.

Everything is broken, it just may not have happened quite yet!

 

[Wansworth]

Everything is broken, it just may not have happened quite yet!

Story of my life

 

[Bouba]

Boaters lie to themselves.....the truth and their boat are but distant cousins

And to follow up on my observation....the buyer is also lying to himself....this starts out with man maths...how defects are a huge saver because man maths always underestimates the time and cost it takes to repair.....so two boaters talking to each other are really two liars talking...the only difference is they don’t lie to each other only themselves

 

[Wansworth]

And to follow up on my observation....the buyer is also lying to himself....this starts out with man maths...how defects are a huge saver because man maths always underestimates the time and cost it takes to repair.....so two boaters talking to each other are really two liars talking...the only difference is they don’t lie to each other only themselves

Surely they lie to their wives first!

 

[Bouba]

Surely they lie to their wives first!

That is the definition of man maths

 

[michael_w]

I've always highlighted the defects to the potential purchaser, then they can't beat you down when the defects come up on survey,

 

[wonkywinch]

At least the Japanese properly recognise what Brits would call "two faced" with their honne and tatemae understanding.

 

[benjenbav]

“Trust, but verify”

…is the only way.

 

[LittleSister]

“Trust, but verify”

…is the only way.

Distrust, then verify as well!

 

[Mister E]

I've always highlighted the defects to the potential purchaser, then they can't beat you down when the defects come up on survey,

When I was selling the last boat I gave a list of defects.
Some fool then tried to get a price reduction based on one. He got upset when I refused to sell to him.

 

[Bristolfashion]

When I was selling the last boat I gave a list of defects.
Some fool then tried to get a price reduction based on one. He got upset when I refused to sell to him.

That's a very good point.

If I tell a seller about some defect / maintenance issue etc, that thing is priced in.

 

[Bouba]

Selling is a delicate thing unless the market has really turned in your favour like post Covid.
You have to balance the need to get a good price against the likelihood of getting another buyer, the on going cost of keeping the boat…and the chance you will miss out on the new boat you are upgrading to

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I think I have been lucky with buying used cars and boats.

When I bought my first GRP boat , the owner was with me for two visits. I decided to buy the boat . When
he came for payment he suddenly burst out that the boat had suffered an impact and showed me an area of large concentric circles in an area of gelcoat topsides. I was too green to notice, but bought the boat anyway. It all turned out ok . When I sold the boat I mentioned this to the buyer and he did didst seem bothered.

 

[Mister E]

Selling is a delicate thing unless the market has really turned in your favour like post Covid.
You have to balance the need to get a good price against the likelihood of getting another buyer, the on going cost of keeping the boat…and the chance you will miss out on the new boat you are upgrading to

I sold the boat for less to someone who appreciated it and was nice to deal with plus very happy with it.

Sometimes it is not about the money.

 

[srm]

When selling I have always been up front with known defects. Usually just a case of wind instruments nor working but not important as I started sailing yachts with a burgee for wind direction and the boat telling me when to reef. Wind instruments are nice to have but when they fail I am not spending silly money to replace. Yet its strange how many people regard them as essential; even had one guy try to insist I replaced them before he would buy. Same guy wanted a professional engine service - told him no, there was a full set of new filters and oil on board and he needed to learn how to do it.

However, looking back there may have been other things that I was perfectly happy with as they did not endanger boat or crew but someone else would not like.

 

[Wansworth]

When selling I have always been up front with known defects. Usually just a case of wind instruments nor working but not important as I started sailing yachts with a burgee for wind direction and the boat telling me when to reef. Wind instruments are nice to have but when they fail I am not spending silly money to replace. Yet its strange how many people regard them as essential; even had one guy try to insist I replaced them before he would buy. Same guy wanted a professional engine service - told him no, there was a full set of new filters and oil on board and he needed to learn how to do it.

However, looking back there may have been other things that I was perfectly happy with as they did not endanger boat or crew but someone else would not like.

Iam afraid when an owner proudly shows me his electronic array and starts flicking switches my heart sinks