Deben entrance 2024

DougTheMac

New member
Joined
4 May 2024
Messages
3
Visit site
Further to my earlier post and Johnah's reply, I think Johnah slightly missed my point. I was wondering if the bar as a whole, not the deep channel through it, is shallower/higher than in previous years. The behaviour of the water inside the river depends on flow over the bar - and near HW, most of the volume of flow will be over the wide area of shallow sandbanks, not through the narrow deep channel. Think about the difference in the strength of the tidal stream in the channel by the groynes compared with in the bar channel itself. If the bar generally is more restricted (ie shallower) than usual, then the rise and fall of water inside will be less and later than usual. (Consider the theoretical example of a near-infinite lake connected to a tidal ocean through a narrow channel - the level of water in the lake will never change, but will always be at mean tide level; peak flow rate (ie tidal stream) in the entrance channel will be at HW and LW.) All estuaries have this behaviour to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the area of water inside and the restriction at the entrance. The tidal height just inside the bar will lag the tidal height outside, and the flood will run inside the bar until the level outside has fallen to equal the level inside the bar, well after HW outside.
Johnah's very useful comments about when the ebb usually starts (HW+0h30) is based on historical experience. My question is whether anyone has noticed any difference this year. As I mentioned above, the levels at Tidemill seemed to be lower and later than the published tables; it certainly caught out several boats who left their berths at the expected time and had to wait 20mins by the entrance for the level to get up to what they ovbiously expected. Any Tidemill residents noticed this behaviour this year?
 

MikeBz

Well-known member
Joined
22 Aug 2005
Messages
1,551
Location
East Anglia
Visit site
It’s not as mountainous as I recall it being in the late 2000s, when it seemed to tower above us when entering at half flood.
 

PeterR

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
418
Visit site
When I passed the marina on the 9th it was exactly at the time of predicted local high water which was supposed to be 2.63m. The guage was showing a fraction under 2.5m and the flood was still going at about half a knot. That seems to be pretty standard in high pressure conditions, even if the tide at sea is much as predicted. The next day a friend of mine who was visiting the marina had his departure delayed when a large motor boat tried to get out out too soon and spent 20 minutes stranded on the cill. The cill guage is reputed to be very acurate so either the mobo misread the guage or tried to leave based on when it was predicted to be OK and didn't look at the guage at all.

I don't have that much experience of the Tidemill but futher still upstream at Larkmans the tide is even more subject to weather induced fluctuations both in terms of height and timing. On spring tides they will normally start trying to launch boats of around 1.8m an hour before HW at the Tidemill but frequently the tide seems to be later than predicted and its not uncommon to spend the first few metres after launching pushing your keel through the mud..
 

I Wright

New member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
12
Visit site
Dear all

I have sent a link to the 2024 deben chart produced by the East Coast pilot to UKHO (UK hydrographic office) with hope that they will amend their chart, so as then, Navionics may also add the new chart details to their electronic chart as I believe that it's the UKHO data that Navionics use.

Cheers Irvine
 

Johnah

Well-known member
Joined
28 Apr 2019
Messages
105
Visit site
Good luck with that, the Deben entrance changes weekly at times so I don't know how they will keep up.

The Knoll Spit Buoy was moved slightly last week maybe a little bit further away from the small shoal to the South.

I went over the bar twice at HW a couple of days ago and the shallowest part seems to be on the land side of the Deben Spit port hand buoy.

20240526_191748.jpg

My depth measurements were Deben Spit shoal (approx circle position) at +0.2m above CD and the bar at -0.2m. Not sure how accurate the measurements are from the echosounder, but it's a reasonable guide,

On leaving the Deben I took a transit from the Harbour Villas housing block to the Knoll Spit Buoy, and on returning back into the river took a transit to the Martello Tower before turning and there was no significant difference.

But yesterday a yacht went aground leaving the Deben and taking a straight line to the Knoll Spit buoy as all the knolls were covered. Luckily he got off, but be careful don't stray across the river to the seaward side.

John
 

DanTribe

Well-known member
Joined
8 Jan 2002
Messages
5,423
Location
Essex
Visit site
We sat on a buoy at Felixstowe Ferry waiting for the tide yesterday. Eventually decided to wait for a nicer day.
But I noticed that several boats leaving left both Knoll Spit and Deben to port on exit, I.e. followed the West bank inside Knoll Spit. Is this local knowledge or just taking a chance?
 

Johnah

Well-known member
Joined
28 Apr 2019
Messages
105
Visit site
We sat on a buoy at Felixstowe Ferry waiting for the tide yesterday. Eventually decided to wait for a nicer day.
But I noticed that several boats leaving left both Knoll Spit and Deben to port on exit, I.e. followed the West bank inside Knoll Spit. Is this local knowledge or just taking a chance?
John White says many boats don't know the correct side to leave a buoy. Yesterday he said the silly season has started!

You can see on that photo how shallow it is on the wrong side of the buoy, it's bad enough on the right side.

No it's not local knowledge to my knowledge, the channel is narrow this year so stick to the correct side of the buoys.

John
 

Plum

Well-known member
Joined
6 Jun 2001
Messages
4,501
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
We sat on a buoy at Felixstowe Ferry waiting for the tide yesterday. Eventually decided to wait for a nicer day.
But I noticed that several boats leaving left both Knoll Spit and Deben to port on exit, I.e. followed the West bank inside Knoll Spit. Is this local knowledge or just taking a chance?
I went in on Friday then out at half flood yesterday May 27 (1.1m draft) and used the ECP chartlet buoy positions and route as per my Post #62. Calculated minimum depth of 0.3m below cd.
 

DanTribe

Well-known member
Joined
8 Jan 2002
Messages
5,423
Location
Essex
Visit site
John White says many boats don't know the correct side to leave a buoy. Yesterday he said the silly season has started!

You can see on that photo how shallow it is on the wrong side of the buoy, it's bad enough on the right side.

No it's not local knowledge to my knowledge, the channel is narrow this year so stick to the correct side of the buoys.

John
Yes, I got the impression that John doesn't say much but when he does speak it's worth listening.
 

Aquaboy

Well-known member
Joined
12 Jun 2019
Messages
570
Visit site
Sailed out just before the ebb finnished Sat morning. You shouldn't really straighten it out this year. Steepest bank is behind the Deben bouy. I suspect a good north easterly will close it up pretty quick. Other entrances are already developing as is usual.
West knoll.PNG lump.PNG
 

shanemax

Active member
Joined
10 Jan 2008
Messages
302
Visit site
How come its always a fin keeler, perhaps they need some guidance from the bilge keel proper sailor society on how not to take things for granted.
 
Top