Content for sailing magazine?

[Greenheart]

Mr Shead, I think it's great that as part of a magazine's staff, you're contributing to this thread, and able to answer (and debunk!) some of our questions, realistic or otherwise.

D'you admit that covers which are bright with large-printed eye-catching promises of exciting contents, may in fact discourage sales, to we who want an enduringly attractive publication as a pleasant way to keep our passion for sailing, simmering away on shore?

I for one can honestly say, I only rarely buy these mags, because I don't like that hard-sell image, or the often punchy brevity of editorial inside. Once upon a time, it was possible to learn things without bullet points!

You mention some of your office's other magazines, which show restraint with regard to cover images/text - because being subscription-only, they don't have to fight to be noticed.

By that rationale, you must recognise that the subscription mags are nicer - but you've worked out what will attract multitudes at news-stands, and calculated that those magazines' image can afford to suffer in consequence.

Doesn't that make you sick?! It makes me furious, and very sad. The image seems to suggest an expectation of widespread attention-deficit disorder in the readership, and you're probably very shrewd to send it out that way.

Is there any hope of a yachting title being published for subscription-only? Hopefully not like Wooden Boat, which for me is too North American, and too humourlessly reverential about the craftsmen.

I'd like a reasonably current read, but not hung-up on whatever's new; something UK-based, crammed with big fabulous photos, exploring picturesque estuaries etc; entertaining local knowledge about Channel ports, reviews of new and existing designs of the Chuck Paine type (by which I mean, tastefully-disguised GRP)...

...lots of editorial content on a How-To basis - everything from chum weights to anodes, sail repair and epoxy. Maybe a page that compares new/old ways round the same problems? A wild-food page, nice focused boat show guides, and how about a short story or two, per issue? And, please, not too much advertising.

Yeah...I'd buy that!

 

[fergie_mac66]

Mr Shead, I think it's great that as part of a magazine's staff, you're contributing to this thread, and able to answer (and debunk!) some of our questions, realistic or otherwise.

D'you admit that covers which are bright with large-printed eye-catching promises of exciting contents, may in fact discourage sales, to we who want an enduringly attractive publication as a pleasant way to keep our passion for sailing, simmering away on shore?

I for one can honestly say, I only rarely buy these mags, because I don't like that hard-sell image, or the often punchy brevity of editorial inside. Once upon a time, it was possible to learn things without bullet points!

You mention some of your office's other magazines, which show restraint with regard to cover images/text - because being subscription-only, they don't have to fight to be noticed.

By that rationale, you must recognise that the subscription mags are nicer - but you've worked out what will attract multitudes at news-stands, and calculated that those magazines' image can afford to suffer in consequence.

Doesn't that make you sick?! It makes me furious, and very sad. The image seems to suggest an expectation of widespread attention-deficit disorder in the readership, and you're probably very shrewd to send it out that way.

Is there any hope of a yachting title being published for subscription-only? Hopefully not like Wooden Boat, which for me is too North American, and too humourlessly reverential about the craftsmen.

I'd like a reasonably current read, but not hung-up on whatever's new; something UK-based, crammed with big fabulous photos, exploring picturesque estuaries etc; entertaining local knowledge about Channel ports, reviews of new and existing designs of the Chuck Paine type (by which I mean, tastefully-disguised GRP)...

...lots of editorial content on a How-To basis - everything from chum weights to anodes, sail repair and epoxy. Maybe a page that compares new/old ways round the same problems? A wild-food page, nice focused boat show guides, and how about a short story or two, per issue? And, please, not too much advertising.

Yeah...I'd buy that!

So would AYE AYE sir

 

[fergie_mac66]

In all seriousness It would be nice to buy from WHsmit if they were cellophane d.Nothing worse than buying a thumbed copy with dogged corners , a reason for subscription, yes but , I want a mag I want to read.

 

[snooks]

This thread should be one where you are not defending things on every post but asking “what do you want and how can we provide that for you”

At Yachting Monthly we do listen to our readers, and unlike other publications we do follow these forums and threads and we do take onboard what is said, we also have reader surveys, and work constantly to improve the magazine.

Everything that you wanted (which dancrane suggested back on page 1) is already in Yachting Monthly and Practical Boat Owner, with the exception of a full page photo on the cover, which really won't happen to news stand copies as it would be commercial suicide.

The crinkle cover won't return because the one machine which could handle the capacity to do Yachting Monthly's print run got too old and broke beyond economic repair, as it was only YM using it

We already provide pretty pictures, but they are for your desktop, not your table top

Our new editor starts in a couple of weeks, so who knows what the future will bring

 

[Lakesailor]

For heaven's sake!
Those who want old-style mags seem to number about 3 or 4 in this thread.
Unless there are a hundred thousand or so more of you, what is your point?

It's just a cover. If you want something to loll about on your coffee table looking pretty, is that what a Yachting Mag should provide?

Mags need high sales. Lots of corporate advertising is aimed at mags in the higher circulation bands. Drop below those and your ad revenue falls. Then your cover price has to go up. The distributors aren't as interested

All because you want a pretty picture (without strap lines)

You'd be better asking for a "clean shot" of the cover on page 3, then you could tear off the cover for coffee-table-posing purposes.

 

[fergie_mac66]

For heaven's sake!
Those who want old-style mags seem to number about 3 or 4 in this thread.
Unless there are a hundred thousand or so more of you, what is your point?

It's just a cover. If you want something to loll about on your coffee table looking pretty, is that what a Yachting Mag should provide?

Mags need high ales. Lots of corporate advertising is aimed at mags in the higher circulation bands. Drop below those and your ad revenue falls. Then your cover price has to go up. The distributors aren't as interested

All because you want a pretty picture (without strap lines)

You'd be better asking for a "clean shot" of the cover on page 3, then you could tear off the cover for coffee-table-posing purposes.

Not just the cover The content needs changing

 

[Koeketiene]

I am sure you at IPC know as well as I do that other sailing magazine editors read this forum.
If I were them I would be rubbing my hands at the apathy shown to change things.
I would be listening to what the readers actually want and be looking to see if I could alter my magazine to grab those W.H Smith readers or increasing my subscription.
This thread should be one where you are not defending things on every post but asking “what do you want and how can we provide that for you”

Well said.

 

[Lakesailor]

Not just the cover The content needs changing

Ah. You want a different magazine.

Try publishing yourself.

 

[Koeketiene]

Not just the cover The content needs changing

It needs to be worth READING.
Get some decent writers in, with a story to tell.

 

[fergie_mac66]

It needs to be worth READING.
Get some decent writers in, with a story to tell.

+1

 

[Lakesailor]

Ah. You want a different magazine.

Try publishing yourself.

 

[Greenheart]

I'm quite ready to acknowledge that what I'd like from yachting magazines, mayn't be visible enough, or transparently appealing enough to attract today's bustling, instantly-distracted, penny-pinching public.

I suspect that even you gents who are obliged to inject fast-acting 'mass appeal' onto mag covers, recognise that as a publication to own and enjoy, the result isn't as nice as it was 25 years ago. Not your own faults, so I won't ask you to agree.

My only point - not very helpful I'm afraid - is that the mags used to evoke a friendly, involving glow for the buyer, so that even when reading far from the sea, one suddenly felt part of the infinitely rewarding pastimes that boat mags cover. Now, I always feel like I'm being sold something. Just the writing style I suppose, more analytical and decisive than it once was, but much less fun.

Also, nowadays I get the feeling the editor expects me to get bored much more quickly than that actually takes.

Actually, looking through a January 2010 PBO I have here, I reckon it's not all bad. The cover is just frightful, a dull picture of a dull AWB (which sadly was also the dull principal test), and smothered with oversized mention of the mag's contents...

...but inside, really not bad. Though I detest the frequent presumption that a new page or article has to shout in 36-point, to maintain attention; and I don't like the way articles are sliced up into bite-sized panels and 'sidebars', as if sustained reading was too much for me...

...but possibly it is too much for a substantial number of readers, otherwise why is it done this way? I'll still buy occasionally, but I'll have to leaf through each issue first - because sadly, there's rarely an obvious appeal for me nowadays...

...the opposite effect from what I imagine was intended.

 

[Nostrodamus]

We do understand you are trying to write and print a magazine which appeals to a very broad section on a limited budget and with a dead line. The magazine in general is good.
What we are trying to do is suggest alternatives for you to consider for more than the nano second you are looking at them now.
Not once through this thread can I remember anyone saying… That sounds a good idea, we will see if we can include it or evaluate it.
I know that if a story is submitted you will ask for numerous pictures and items that can be included in call out boxes,
I don’t know if you ever look at these forums and actually e mail some of the contributors asking them to write you a story or article on points they are discussing.
I just feel you are a doctor with a bad bedside manner telling me the patient to take my medicine and shut up.
I know other magazines read the forum as they have in the past taken the trouble to e mail me asking for a story and taking the time to explain exactly how it should be made up and helping me along the way.
In these cases which preference would you have towards a magazine?
As Dacrane says, you need to make the reader feel part of the magazine again and the dismissive way in which you have now and previously canned forum ideas strait away does not help.

 

[dylanwinter]

Thoughtful contributions

As a former magazine hack I have really enjoyed this thread.

The last two contributions from Nostradamus and Dan Crane have been wonderful. Thoughtful, well written and polite.

Perhaps they are asking for a lost World of sailing journalism. They want a return to the day when one of our most illustrious sailing writers would tell his boss that he was going to the boat and was going to take it up a creek, shove its bow onto the mud as the tide retreats, get his portable type-writer out of its box, poor himself a modest glass of good quality whiskey and sit at the saloon table writing 1000 carefully crafted words.

No phones, no GPS, no google, no web dongles.

But that was back in the day when most sailors had wooden boats, Hilyard still placed adverts and Westerly with their solid plastic Centaurs were the new kids on the block.

The only way these companies could reach sailors was through boat shows or sailing magazines. Now there are literally millions of different ways of reaching sailors.

They had to buy space regardless of what was written in the magazines.

The demographic of sailors has also changed. Sailors used to be gents like Dan Crane and Nostradamus - men of perception, intelligence and I would guess considerable spending power.

Now that you can pick up an immaculate immortal second hand plastic yacht for the sort of money a banker might earn in 20 minutes we have new people among our ranks - shrill individuals whose prose is scattered with acronym and who utterly disregard the rules good writing.

The heathens have arrived.

As a jobbing freelance it would be great if we could return to the days when a writer could earn enough money from a single column to keep his household running for a week.

If you want clear, thoughful, discursive writing about sailing then you are more likely to find it in an old bookshop or from Amazon than you are between the covers of a sailing magazine.

The world has moved.

I think that today's magazines are fit for purpose - a quick read on the train or a flip through while afloat.

If you want good sailing prose then go back through time through the miracle of old books. There is lots of it out there and just a few clicks will have it appearing through your door with the post in the morning.

I am with your Dan and Nostradamus - but we are dinosaurs.



meantime.....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Funny-Old-Sailor-Anecdotes-Sleightholme/dp/0713667133

any other suggestions for some great sailing writers of the past who are worth tracking down gratefully accepted

Dylan

 

[Nostrodamus]

Dylan,
Thank you for your considered contribution and from one dinosaur to another our time on this planet may be ending but at least we can go out with a roar.

Unfortunately we are on a very, very tight budget so I have no money to throw around which is one reason I do want to see quality for the money I spend.

There are quality writers such as yourself on this forum who will write quality pieces that I love to read and just wish that their contributions were taken up by the magazines.

Look back over the last month on the posts that have the most viewers or contributions and there are stories to be written there.

Look at the magazine and see what stories have prompted the biggest praise and it is the innovative, new,fresh stories or approaches.

All I am asking is for the magazine to get back in bed with the reader instead of walking out the room and turning the lights out.

 

[SHUG]

SEX sells magazines. I mean Sailing at EXtremes.
The fastest , the furthest, the most northerly/ southerly, the most expensive, the cheapest, the best, the worst etc etc... Anything that is outside ones normal sailing experiece is always interesting.

 

[Greenheart]

All interesting.

Dylan, I get the feeling you know me, better than I know myself! Except for the spending power, regrettably. But all you said here makes very convincing reading, alas.

If indeed the bulk of the market for yachting-press output is now so fleeting in its attention, perhaps we dinosaurs need to relegate ourselves to a nautical version of The Oldie, which my ancient father enjoys regularly, by subscription.

As I said above, I've found YM, YW and PBO indistinguishable for a long time now, and I don't put that down to my daftness.

But if there was a monthly, whose name alone guaranteed exactly the type of colourful, slightly eccentric, somewhat privileged, scenic content (which Dylan describes nicely, as coming from a world gone thirty or more years ago), then once again, I wouldn't need to see more than the title before picking up my copy.

The tone needn't actually be determinedly averse to the downsides of modern times, even though there's a huge market for Grumpy Old Men-type works.

But I wrote earlier, that almost everything I need to know, I'll find on screen anyway these days...so I'd like to think of any mag as a pleasant relief: intelligent reading, plus a shortcut to better photography than I'm likely to find by hunting on internet.

If the pictures are always good, double pages like the aerial shots of West Country rivers I recall from decades ago, I'd know before buying that the mag contains what I want from it...that atmosphere we rarely find between the covers these days.

I think that's at the heart of it. Looking through some recent YMs, there isn't even ONE full-page photo. The articles aren't a decent read with decent pics; they're chopped-up paragraphs and lots of little photos - 'details' from larger pics.

The result may well be something that's easy to read if you only have sixty seconds free, but it's completely unattractive if you want to immerse yourself in it. It's actually difficult to get into, because you no sooner start than have to stop.

If that's what you gents in charge want, you're doing a fine job. It's not what I want to pay for though.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Snooks,
I have every respect for you saying as much as you do.
I feel that you are frustrated as well but are also tied to what you can say.

With the Rocna story it was old news before the magazine dare print anything and in the meantime the anchors were still being bought and the magazine was still taking money from advertisements in their glossy pages extolling its virtues.
Everyone on the thread had showed how bad and dangerous they were but money from the adverts was more important. If the magazine did truly listen to readers this is one case where they should have stuck their neck out and certainly refused the adverts.
Again a case of leaving the reader in bed whilst the magazine turned out the lights and left.

 

[fergie_mac66]

All interesting.

Dylan, I get the feeling you know me, better than I know myself! Except for the spending power, regrettably. But all you said here makes very convincing reading, alas.

If indeed the bulk of the market for yachting-press output is now so fleeting in its attention, perhaps we dinosaurs need to relegate ourselves to a nautical version of The Oldie, which my ancient father enjoys regularly, by subscription.

As I said above, I've found YM, YW and PBO indistinguishable for a long time now, and I don't put that down to my daftness.

But if there was a monthly, whose name alone guaranteed exactly the type of colourful, slightly eccentric, somewhat privileged, scenic content (which Dylan describes nicely, as coming from a world gone thirty or more years ago), then once again, I wouldn't need to see more than the title before picking up my copy.

The tone needn't actually be determinedly averse to the downsides of modern times, even though there's a huge market for Grumpy Old Men-type works.

But I wrote earlier, that almost everything I need to know, I'll find on screen anyway these days...so I'd like to think of any mag as a pleasant relief: intelligent reading, plus a shortcut to better photography than I'm likely to find by hunting on internet.

If the pictures are always good, double pages like the aerial shots of West Country rivers I recall from decades ago, I'd know before buying that the mag contains what I want from it...that atmosphere we rarely find between the covers these days.

I think that's at the heart of it. Looking through some recent YMs, there isn't even ONE full-page photo. The articles aren't a decent read with decent pics; they're chopped-up paragraphs and lots of little photos - 'details' from larger pics.

The result may well be something that's easy to read if you only have sixty seconds free, but it's completely unattractive if you want to immerse yourself in it. It's actually difficult to get into, because you no sooner start than have to stop.

If that's what you gents in charge want, you're doing a fine job. It's not what I want to pay for though.

So eloquently put , I have money jingling in my pocket for that characterful magazine .

 

[Greenheart]

Many thanks Fergie...I wish I could click my fingers and 'make it so'!

Actually I fear I’ve risked appearing to be a sentimental, out-dated nostalgia-junkie. But isn’t it every magazine customer’s hope, to find the subject covered in a way that promotes the pleasure and sense of involvement as much as possible?

And surely every editor's aim, too? I reckon I’ve identified what I myself dislike about today’s content – it’s that tragic dilution of traditional presentation, of sailing at its best. Diluted so that any air-head can pick up and read for a few seconds.

Perhaps it’s even diluted by today’s sheer quantity of resources – I mean, if editorial staff have fifty images from an event, they may feel obliged to print ten ‘thumbnail pics’ rather than one glorious overview. That’s really a damn shame because the results look like a plateful of ingredients rather than the lovely main-course these articles once amounted to.

It's not beyond an editor's power to put it right, though.