Coll Regs Advice

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]

The problem I had was with a boat which was part of a class fleet which was racing, strung out over 300m or so, sometimes 2 or 3 abreast.

Mine was the boat which on starboard tack and I was of the opinion that I was the stand on vessel. I consider it extremely unlikely that the people sailing the boat were inexperienced and unaware of the coll regs, neither is it likely that they did not see me.

Their boom nearly got caught in my backstay and I was towing a dinghy on a short painter. Afterwards it occured to me that maybe, as the other boat was on my starboard bow I should have given way

Hindsight says I probably should have tacked early to avoid the whole fleet and gone around the back of them as I usually do.

If I have got it wrong I want to offer an apology to the other boat.

David

[/ QUOTE ]

David,

your usual policy of avoiding the fleet is the PC thing to do, but it must be done early, well before a situation arises. However, once you are in a collision avoidance situation, (and it is the circumstances and conditions of the particular situation which dictate the point at which this occurs), the Rules of The Road apply, so you did the right thing, and owe no apology.

Having said that, once it becomes clear that a collision cannot be avoided by the actions of the give way vessel alone, the stand on vessel must take action.... always avoiding an alteration of course to port where possible.

If there was no collision, then you remain in the right.

I dont blame you for asking the question. As I said when I guessed what might have happened, the same situation would have had me questioning my judgement.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Rustyknight]

Great answer thanks, and certainly clarifies the situation.

Sounds like they knew they had to nip round your stern, but p'raps got a bit too close for comfort (yours, not theirs). Many racing boats/crews love close quarters situations, sometimes coming within inches of each other.

Probably most cruising sailors, me especially, will break into a sweat if another boat comes within 100ft.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
I assume (and take into account the fact that I could be wrong) that other "skippers" at least have a working knowledge of the ones that says who stands on, who gives way, and what to do if no action is taken.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given that, with no experience whatsoever, anyone can buy a yacht or motorboat, and set sail, it is entirely possible that the vessel you are expecting to give way has no idea that he should do so.

Where possible, I usually manoeuvre into a position early, so that a risk of collision will not arise. Taken early enough, an alteration of only a few degrees is usually enough to ensure this.

Obviously not always possible, particularly in busy or confined waters.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[davidpbo]

To clarify
Which has precedence when solely under sail
Being on Starboard Tack?
or giving way to anything off the starboard bow?

 

[Rustyknight]

Being on starboard tack, you were the stand on vessel. The racing boat on port gybe should have given way, and made it clear that they were giving way.

As has been said, the fact that they were racing alters nothing.

Unfortunately, it's not always possible to keep out of a racing fleets course completely, especially as you probably won't know which marks they're racing round.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
To clarify
Which has precedence when solely under sail
Being on Starboard Tack?
or giving way to anything off the starboard bow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Port tack gives way to starboard tack.

If both are on the same tack, the windward vessel gives way.

Starboard bow has no relevance in purely sailing situations.

Cheers

Richard

 

[bumblefish]

Very hard to imagine, Boat 1 is close hauled, therefore heading upwind, how does Boat 2 goose winged, manage to go upwind at the same speed and course?

 

[bumblefish]

Unless you are overtaking!

 

[Lakesailor]

Now that you explain it was a class fleet in the North West I understand. Col Regs aside, did you not know that Windermere Class boats own the lake. The ex-chairman of the LDNPA races and you are but a signed-on user of the lake?

Joking aside I haven't tangled as closey as that, but have asserted my rights in the past (without being awkward, I'm just cruising and they are trying to race) and sometimes get a wry smile, but more often a stony stare.
The fact that the courses use the whole width of the lake and there may be 3 or 4 classes racing different routes at once makes it a minefield which anyone just out having a sail must assess and carry on on as they see fit.
Console yourself in the knowledge that those in the lead have worked out their tactics and what-ifs ages before you arrived and those that you tangle with are playing catch-up and probably just cocked up the last mark anyway.

I think they rely on the ultimate sanction that it is your duty as well as theirs to avoid a collision, and they try to make sure it's you who makes the move.

 

[bumblefish]

And again if you are on the same course and speed, what is the issue, you will not collide! If you are overtaking you are not stand on!

 

[davidpbo]

[ QUOTE ]
Very hard to imagine, Boat 1 is close hauled, therefore heading upwind, how does Boat 2 goose winged, manage to go upwind at the same speed and course?

[/ QUOTE ]

Boat 2 was upwind (windward??) of me heading downwind towards me.

If my original description was technically incorrect I apologise.

David

 

[bumblefish]

If the other vessel was on the same tack and upwind, the you are stand on, howsoever, if you are overtaking then they are. But if they have a main goose winged to starboard heading, presumably. downwind they remain on a starboard tack and are still the upwind vessel and should allow you to stand on?

 

[damo]

I asked something similar of a yachtmaster examiner and his reply was: assume that for a goosewinged or spinnaker-flying boat it is on starboard tack. It is much easier for a close-hauled boat to manouver than one which is running boomed out.

 

[Talulah]

No body has mentioned yet that you could have given them 5 quick blasts of the horn. (They probably wouldn't have heard it but it's tempting to fit a speaker on the mast for just this purpose especially as some modern VHF radio's can be set to sound fog signals over just such a speaker.) I too feel a whole new ambush of a thread just about to start!

 

[landaftaf]

Re: Coll Regs Advice - late reply

sorry for the delay in replying ....... must have missed the thread /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

anyway, to my mind the forum should be a place where no-one should feel inhibirted in asking a question.

I am of the opinion that your blunt repost could well be considered as inhibiting and stifle free discussion in the future ....... the implication being .... well I have looked at your bio and all things considered - 'what are you doing on the helm if you dont know the answer to this simple question - and after 5 years as well'

thats why I posted your answer was, IMO, out of order /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[graham]

you are right on reading it again your post was not that bad.(sorry i must have been tired last night)

i still think that anyone unsure of the rules would do better to buy a copy of "A Seamans guide to the rules of the road" Its a self teach book with Qs and As at the end of each chapter.Also the flip cards you can buy in chandlers are usefull.

Relying on answers from a forum is unwise IMHO.

 

[Lakesailor]

Wash your mouth.

You'll always get a far greater variety of "correct" answers on the forum than in any book. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Dipper]

Nobody has mentioned that the very first sentence of the International Regs states "These Rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels".

I'm not familiar with Windermere but I am sure you can't navigate to it in a seagoing vessel so the Regs do not necessarily apply. I assume there will be local regulations which will clarify what rules do apply and even if the International Regs are in use, then there will be local rules that may modify or disapply these (like most harbours and rivers). It is always possible that racing fleets take precedent at certain times.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Good point, but if I remember correctly, the local byelaws say that IRPCS DO APPLY on the lake. If its changed, no doubt someone will correct me.

 

[Ships_Cat]

I suspect that you will be corrected even if they haven't changed /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John