Buying a boat in Norway... Looking for a surveyor -

[thvoyager]

This boat is well built. And has been looked after. To my own limited but not limited to quality knowledge. After 7 pages I’m beginning to be scared off. More so on the nonsense RCD stuff than anything else.
What crazy is is have to pay double in the Uk to get a boat which is twice as bad. Madness. But those governing bodies have a job to do and money to make eh. If I wasn’t a rookie boaty I’d be more well equipped to handle this. But I am sort of erring on the side of caution. Shame as it’s a truly well
Built vessel.
I either risk £16k or I don’t.

 

[jlavery]

This boat is well built. And has been looked after. To my own limited but not limited to quality knowledge. After 7 pages I’m beginning to be scared off. More so on the nonsense RCD stuff than anything else.
What crazy is is have to pay double in the Uk to get a boat which is twice as bad. Madness. But those governing bodies have a job to do and money to make eh. If I wasn’t a rookie boaty I’d be more well equipped to handle this. But I am sort of erring on the side of caution. Shame as it’s a truly well
Built vessel.
I either risk £16k or I don’t.

I think we'd all agree that it's crazy. But it's the way it is, and it is frustrating - I can understand your frustration! But that's what Brexit has done for us. Enough said on that.

If you're paying £16k, (which seems very low for what the boat seems to be from the picture) then that's the start of the spending, in terms of delivery, etc. etc. (but we're going over old ground there). I'm still intrigued to know what design she is - but you seem reluctant to tell us that!

 

[Tranona]

This boat is well built. And has been looked after. To my own limited but not limited to quality knowledge. After 7 pages I’m beginning to be scared off. More so on the nonsense RCD stuff than anything else.
What crazy is is have to pay double in the Uk to get a boat which is twice as bad. Madness. But those governing bodies have a job to do and money to make eh. If I wasn’t a rookie boaty I’d be more well equipped to handle this. But I am sort of erring on the side of caution. Shame as it’s a truly well
Built vessel.
I either risk £16k or I don’t.

Post a link to the boat. Forget about the importing bit - that is not the reason for the price differential as I explained early. Old boats of that type have always been cheaper in Scandinavia compared with the UK simply because people there are not prepared to pay for a boat that is past its best and will have high running costs. Think in car terms of buying a 20 year old Jaguar XJ6 and trying to use it like a modern everyday car. As i said earlier even when there was free movement - no certification, no VAT there was very little trade in these boats except for higher priced niche boats that have always commanded a premium in the UK.

If you really think it is a bargain pay about £1500 to fly a UK surveyor out to inspect it with a clear brief that you want this to be a liveaboard to keep for a long time.

 

[westernman]

...
If you really think it is a bargain pay about £1500 to fly a UK surveyor out to inspect it with a clear brief that you want this to be a liveaboard to keep for a long time.

And that you want to import it into the UK and he should list the work with approximate costs for what would be needed to do that legally.

 

[thvoyager]

I think we'd all agree that it's crazy. But it's the way it is, and it is frustrating - I can understand your frustration! But that's what Brexit has done for us. Enough said on that.

If you're paying £16k, (which seems very low for what the boat seems to be from the picture) then that's the start of the spending, in terms of delivery, etc. etc. (but we're going over old ground there). I'm still intrigued to know what design she is - but you seem reluctant to tell us that!

Sorry it’s a hero107. Well the first one they made. So I’m told.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I suspect that the Rival 38 for £17k described in a post on Scuttlebutt, while still a risk and likely to need expensive upgrades, would be a whole lot simpler, less hassle and lower risk than trying to import an old non-compliant VAT unpaid boat with dodgy teak decks from Norway. You can still use it in the EU, subject to the 18 month Temporary Admission scheme rules. Leaving EU waters for a day every 18 months, while a restriction, isn't a particularly onerous one to work around for a full time cruiser, and a lot less bother than trying to get an old boat compliant with current standards. For using an old boat in both the UK and the EU for a UK resident it seems pretty obvious to me which way to do it.

 

[westernman]

I suspect that the Rival 38 for £17k described in a post on Scuttlebutt, while still a risk and likely to need expensive upgrades, would be a whole lot simpler, less hassle and lower risk than trying to import an old non-compliant VAT unpaid boat with dodgy teak decks from Norway. You can still use it in the EU, subject to the 18 month Temporary Admission scheme rules. Leaving EU waters for a day every 18 months, while a restriction, isn't a particularly onerous one to work around for a full time cruiser, and a lot less bother than trying to get an old boat compliant with current standards. For using an old boat in both the UK and the EU for a UK resident it seems pretty obvious to me which way to do it.

This Rival 34 while more expensive, might be a better buy - probably needs less money spent on it.

1980 Rival 34 - Cardiff (Caerdydd) | Boatshop24 UK

At this end of the market, the best thing is to get a boat which requires as few expensive upgrades or repairs as possible.
You will almost never recoup any investment you make in "improvements".

 

[thvoyager]

I suspect that the Rival 38 for £17k described in a post on Scuttlebutt, while still a risk and likely to need expensive upgrades, would be a whole lot simpler, less hassle and lower risk than trying to import an old non-compliant VAT unpaid boat with dodgy teak decks from Norway. You can still use it in the EU, subject to the 18 month Temporary Admission scheme rules. Leaving EU waters for a day every 18 months, while a restriction, isn't a particularly onerous one to work around for a full time cruiser, and a lot less bother than trying to get an old boat compliant with current standards. For using an old boat in both the UK and the EU for a UK resident it seems pretty obvious to me which way to do it.

Where is the link?

 

[thvoyager]

Here is link to the boat.
After 150 posts ?

Hero Hero107

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Where is the link?

Rival 38 - Cheapish or not ?

 

[Marceline]

...Old boats of that type have always been cheaper in Scandinavia compared with the UK simply because people there are not prepared to pay for a boat that is past its best and will have high running costs. Think in car terms of buying a 20 year old Jaguar XJ6 and trying to use it like a modern everyday car. As i said earlier even when there was free movement - no certification, no VAT there was very little trade in these boats except for higher priced niche boats that have always commanded a premium in the UK.

Sorry to muddy the waters and jump on the OP's thread, but as an also newbie and UK Citizen/Resident I'm hoping to sail Ireland West Coast/Scotland/onto Norway in a few years once I'd got more experience/RYA qualifications

If I moved to The Republic of Ireland and rented (or bought) a home and was resident there - something I'm hoping to do in a couple of years - if I bought a used older boat in Norway or Ireland, would I then have to pay UK VAT if I entered UK waters, or would being resident in Ireland help insulate me from the above probs and regulatroy certification headaches the OP is facing with the boat they're interested in ?

 

[thvoyager]

Rival 38 - Cheapish or not ?

When an ad says ‘sold as seen’ it always scares me.
Their boat was a project and they built it up. Not the best start.
move learned a lot over the last 7 pages tho. Maybe now I’m super cautious.
My heart does not feel this one.

 

[jlavery]

When an ad says ‘sold as seen’ it always scares me.
Their boat was a project and they built it up. Not the best start.
move learned a lot over the last 7 pages tho. Maybe now I’m super cautious.
My heart does not feel this one.

I agree. "Sold as seen" means "tread carefully"!

 

[jlavery]

Here is link to the boat.
After 150 posts ?

Hero Hero107

Ah - I can see why you're tempted. She does indeed look well kept. Edit - for her age, as @Hacker points out, looking closer, there's stuff going on there.

I think this old for sale page refers to the same boat. It's odd that I can find very little reference online to the Hero 107 - looks like not many were built (that's an observation, not criticism).

Unfortunately, though, if something seems to good to be true - in this case a 35 foot boat for £17,000 (even a 40 year old one)- it probably is too good to be true. Once the administrative cluster**** resulting from "taking back control (TM)" has been taken into account.

 

[Hacker]

Here is link to the boat.
After 150 posts ?

Hero Hero107

Picture number 8 shows extensive water ingress, deck pretty much gone I suspect.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Picture number 8 shows extensive water ingress, deck pretty much gone I suspect.

Could be from the window frame- but it certainly needs looking at by a surveyor. I think that IF she was in the UK, free of RCD and VAT concerns, she'd be an interesting proposition at that price. But as it is, no way.

 

[Tranona]

Here is link to the boat.
After 150 posts ?

Hero Hero107

That helps. On e of the problems with old obscure boats like this is whether you can still source spares or replacements for the equipment. A mainstream UK or European production boat is usually better in this respect plus many have active owners associations.

Pity not more photos of the deck, but the first photo you put up shows a lot of plugs missing even on low traffic areas. Easiest way to test is to soak the deck with a hose then let it dry and look for areas that dry more slowly as these indicate failed seams or plugs. A sure sign the deck is on its way out. You might get another 5 years after remaining the seams and replacing the plugs The best thing to do then is to strip the whole lot off and paint the deck - no mean feat in itself but while practical further devalues the boat.

That and the signs of water ingress are the sorts of things that put people off as they are expensive to fix and can't be bodged on such a nicely built boat.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry to muddy the waters and jump on the OP's thread, but as an also newbie and UK Citizen/Resident I'm hoping to sail Ireland West Coast/Scotland/onto Norway in a few years once I'd got more experience/RYA qualifications

If I moved to The Republic of Ireland and rented (or bought) a home and was resident there - something I'm hoping to do in a couple of years - if I bought a used older boat in Norway or Ireland, would I then have to pay UK VAT if I entered UK waters, or would being resident in Ireland help insulate me from the above probs and regulatroy certification headaches the OP is facing with the boat they're interested in ?

If you are an Irish resident then you are in the EU. If you own an EU VAT paid boat you are free to go anywhere in the EU, and for periods up to 18 months in the UK. Your citizenship is irrelevant for the boat, but you personally are limited by Schengen rules.

 

[westernman]

If you are an Irish resident then you are in the EU. If you own an EU VAT paid boat you are free to go anywhere in the EU, and for periods up to 18 months in the UK. Your citizenship is irrelevant for the boat, but you personally are limited by Schengen rules.

You could buy a boat in Norway. No issues for RCD (Norway is in the EEA and RCD applies to EU and EEA), but you will have to pay VAT as soon as it arrives anywhere in the EU.

 

[thvoyager]

You could buy a boat in Norway. No issues for RCD (Norway is in the EEA and RCD applies to EU and EEA), but you will have to pay VAT as soon as it arrives anywhere in the EU.

No issues for RCD on a Norway boat? Many posts in this thread have said otherwise.