Buying a boat in Norway... Looking for a surveyor -

[AngusMcDoon]

Sorry. EDIT.
Engine was new in 2007.
I was just googling and found an old Ybw thread from 2006 about RCD.

“
These are the main 'exclusions below'
A boat DOES NOT need to comply with the RCD if:-
It was built in the EEA [European Economic Area -- bigger than EU] prior to 16 June 1998
It was in use in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It is only visiting the EEA for reasons of tourism or in transit (time scales are undefined)”

That first point still stand?

Keeping the boat in Norway or the EU, you'll be fine. Bring it to the UK, all those rules are irrelevant as we are no longer in the EEA or EU but a new and separate customs area.

 

[thvoyager]

In your case you would do well to join, seek out people who have actually imported boats and, above all, don't do anything in a hurry.

Retrospective application of regulations is daft and unjust but we are stuck with it right now. Thousands of used vehicles are imported into the UK every year, some with engines so antiquated they make your Volvo look like an Infinite Probability Drive but there we are.

If you are just starting your boating career, the boat in the picture has all the signs of being a severe baptism.

.

I never use the word ‘LOL’ but I must insist it here.
What is a severe baptism? More RCD compliance?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

What is a severe baptism? More RCD compliance?

A tatty old teak deck for a start.

 

[thvoyager]

A tatty old teak deck for a start.

That was replaced in 1997. And it’s wood. It can be brought back to life like leather or precious metal.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

That was replaced in 1997. And it’s wood. It can be brought back to life like leather or precious metal.

When was the boat built? The teak deck was replaced in 1997, so how many years did the original deck last? How does that compare to the 25 years age of the current deck? Do you know how much it will cost to replace when needed (it will, it's wood, so it degrades naturally, unlike a precious metal). You could be looking at £40k to replace it in the not far distant future.

 

[westernman]

Sorry. EDIT.
Engine was new in 2007.
I was just googling and found an old Ybw thread from 2006 about RCD.

“
These are the main 'exclusions below'
A boat DOES NOT need to comply with the RCD if:-
It was built in the EEA [European Economic Area -- bigger than EU] prior to 16 June 1998
It was in use in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998
It is only visiting the EEA for reasons of tourism or in transit (time scales are undefined)”

That first point still stand?

The first point stood until we left the EU. Now any boat imported into the UK has to comply to the latest and greatest version of the UKCA which is currently the same as RCD 2013/53/EC (commonly referred to as RCD II).

 

[westernman]

Sorry to keep this thread going.
but quick key question.

UKCA / RCD certs.

The boat I am viewing and viewed now had a new Volvo Penta 2-40 engine in 1997. It sounds solid.
What is Busy Bob’s cut off date for ‘out dated environmentally destructive’ engines?
I’m wondering if the engine is fine, and sure I have to pay some vat as well as maybe update electrical and add a few more fire extinguishers if it’s still possible.
Here is the boat. An impulsive trip but was good to see and stand on her.
View attachment 142328

I would not try importing that boat into the UK even if it was given to me free of charge.
It will just be far too expensive.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I would not try importing that boat into the UK even if it was given to me free of charge.
It will just be far too expensive.

That sums it up perfectly.

 

[Refueler]

Well that was a bit of a Karen thing to do. I guess they didn’t get on. What was your friend aiming to do? Just give himself some time to sort the legal stuff out etc. What happened to the vessel? And how did he get it all sorted.

He intended to sort out all once settled to mooring etc. But the 'Skippers' action caused boat to be held pending full payment of Duties etc.
YES - boat was technically impounded and not allowed to move to intended mooring he had organised.

'Skipper' when he presented his bill also 'padded it out' ...

I had suggested he NOT use Falmouth as Port of Entry - it does have a large Customs Training Establishment there .. I assume its still there.
Sadly pal died a year later and boat was sold on by his remaining family. Where boat is now - I have no idea.

Reason I related the tale - was to show that extreme care should be taken in who / how you engage a 'skipper' ... plus consider all aspects of intended arrival location.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

He intended to sort out all once settled to mooring etc. But the 'Skippers' action caused boat to be held pending full payment of Duties etc.
YES - boat was technically impounded and not allowed to move to intended mooring he had organised.

'Skipper' when he presented his bill also 'padded it out' ...

I had suggested he NOT use Falmouth as Port of Entry - it does have a large Customs Training Establishment there .. I assume its still there.
Sadly pal died a year later and boat was sold on by his remaining family. Where boat is now - I have no idea.

Reason I related the tale - was to show that extreme care should be taken in who / how you engage a 'skipper' ... plus consider all aspects of intended arrival location.

Though any reputable delivery skipper would be squeaky clean about immigration requirements. If they weren't, it might impact future work. So I'd expect a delivery skipper to want to enter via a port of entry, or at least a marina, not go directly to a mooring, even if moving the boat to a mooring after entry was expected. Fair point about not using one with a training establishment, though!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

When was the boat built? The teak deck was replaced in 1997, so how many years did the original deck last? How does that compare to the 25 years age of the current deck? Do you know how much it will cost to replace when needed (it will, it's wood, so it degrades naturally, unlike a precious metal). You could be looking at £40k to replace it in the not far distant future.

It's also a wearing surface, and relatively thin wood. I wouldn't have a teak deck given to me; they are a complete can of worms. They WILL wear out and some methods of fixing them inevitably lead to deck leaks through the vast number of screw holes. WHEN (not IF) they wear out they must either be replaced (which is fantastically expensive) or the deck painted or covered with a decking product. The latter is never cosmetically as good as the original.

 

[ylop]

Has anyone actually head of or know of a case of an import that has attracted HMRC or Trading standards RCD grief .
Talking about a guy sailing into a U.K. marina , or muddy creek berth flying a red with a part 3 SR number freshly stuck on the stern .For the sake of argument either U.K. basic 3 P or the seller’s remaining insurance still running .

Sounds a bit like it’s a U.K. only key board warriors issue .Technically correct but no one’s that should be bothered actually is bothered .

As has been pointed out in this thread, smuggling the boat in may work unless:
- you need to employ a professional delivery skipper
- you want to insure an old boat and need a survey
- you want to sell the boat on for maximum value (to someone who needs a survey or cares about VAT paperwork)
- you plan to bring it in by the shortest crossings which are likely to get the most scrutiny
- you ever piss anyone off who knows your naughty secret and gives HMRC tip off line a call

Bit like if you are burgled calling for the cops .They can’t be bothered coming out just issue a crime number to loose you on the system .

you may find that is mostly media hype, or perhaps an inner city thing. I'm pretty certain if I get burgled today I'll see some cops, perhaps not quickly but within 48hrs.

 

[thvoyager]

Engine has a CE mark. Would this be a good thing for RCD2. Was new in 2007.

 

[westernman]

View attachment 142337
Engine has a CE mark. Would this be a good thing for RCD2. Was new in 2007. View attachment 142337

Unlikely to meet RCD II (from 2013, entered into force 2016 if I remember right). So your engine was installed in 2007. When was it designed?
Was it designed to take into account the emissions regulations which were to come into force into 2016?

Unlikely.

 

[jlavery]

Looking up the serial number on the Volvo website Engine Manuals and Handbooks | Volvo Penta UK & Ireland gives the following:

 

[dunedin]

View attachment 142337
Engine has a CE mark. Would this be a good thing for RCD2. Was new in 2007. View attachment 142337

I believe that the Volvo D2-40 and similar D2-55 were discontinued 2 or 3 years ago, and replaced by similar but slightly different models. The reason, I believe, was forced by new regulations.
The chances of this meeting latest RCD rules (if required) must be close to zero.

 

[mrming]

@thvoyager one photo of that boat rings alarm bells for me and the other posters above. I’m sure you’re doing this anyway, but I would use my time over there to view as many more boats as possible. The more you look at, the more you learn.

 

[Tranona]

I never use the word ‘LOL’ but I must insist it here.
What is a severe baptism? More RCD compliance?

No. It means that everything one sees about that sort of boat, irrespective of regulations says RUN. Such boats have low asking prices because anybody who knows about such things would not touch it with a barge pole. The sellers are looking for impressionable beginners who have no idea what is involved in owning and running a boat like that in both a skills and financial sense.

That would have been a lovely boat when it was built 30 or 40 years ago, very expensive and the first owner would have lavished care and attention on it for the first 10 years of its life and from then on it would be all downhill. Teak deck replaced at less than 20 years old and the new one is not 25 years old - what does that tell you.? That type of deck construction is a nightmare to deal with when it fails because of all the fastenings into the underlying structure, never mind the high cost of teak - if you can actually get any. The earlier estimate of £40k is probably light!

That boat is entering the last few years of its life - equivalent of car "banger" territory, where the cost of keeping it running outweighs its value and the financial resources of the unfortunate owner

 

[jlavery]

The deck looks similar to that on our 1989 Sweden 36 - but ours is original, so 33 years old.

We bought her 2 years ago in the UK. Why knowing the make of boat can be relevant is whether it's "banger territory" or not. The Sweden has such superb build quality that Arpeggio was definitely not an old banger.

She wasn't a project, but we still ended up:

• Replacing all the electronics
• Having to replace the 2 year old standing rigging because the wrong terminals had been used and had cracked the mast plates (not picked up on survey)
• Replacing the furler (old model with no spares available any more)
• Replacing the engine because the original VP 2003 finally gave up the ghost

So the above was done to a boat which was in the UK already, and had been well maintained by the previous owners.

 

[westernman]

Unlikely to meet RCD II (from 2013, entered into force 2016 if I remember right). So your engine was installed in 2007. When was it designed?
Was it designed to take into account the emissions regulations which were to come into force into 2016?

Unlikely.

I will quote Doug748:-

Retrospective application of regulations is daft and unjust but we are stuck with it right now.

And also add, it was not like that before Brexit.

If you are really really decided to go ahead with that boat, do not import it into the UK while you continue to be a UK resident.