Buying a boat in Norway... Looking for a surveyor -

[westernman]

No issues for RCD on a Norway boat? Many posts in this thread have said otherwise.

For an Irish resident!!!!!!!
Have you not understood any of the issues????

 

[thvoyager]

For an Irish resident!!!!!!!
Have you not understood any of the issues????

Thought you meant for UK. Sorry. Misread ??

 

[Slowboat35]

As a complete aside many years ago I was travelling via the Shuttle from Aberdeen to Heathrow and was seated next to a very genial older Scandawegian gentleman. He commented on my Yachting World (or whatever_) mag and we began to talk about sailing, and my interest at the time in buying a Folkboat. Oh, he said, we have lots of those down my way , good ones too. If you ever need advice or pointers on our Folkboats or want to come over to see them drop me a line. I'll show you the way! He gave me his card. Of course I thanked him and pocketed it, ignoring the very sensible Japanese stricture of carefully examining it first.
Rattling back to London on the Central Line I dug it out and read, to my chagrin, Sten A. Olson. Shipowner.
What a gent.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Sorry to muddy the waters and jump on the OP's thread, but as an also newbie and UK Citizen/Resident I'm hoping to sail Ireland West Coast/Scotland/onto Norway in a few years once I'd got more experience/RYA qualifications

If I moved to The Republic of Ireland and rented (or bought) a home and was resident there - something I'm hoping to do in a couple of years - if I bought a used older boat in Norway or Ireland, would I then have to pay UK VAT if I entered UK waters, or would being resident in Ireland help insulate me from the above probs and regulatroy certification headaches the OP is facing with the boat they're interested in ?

Good luck with finding a home to rent or buy in Ireland?

 

[Boo2]

I agree. "Sold as seen" means "tread carefully"!

In fairness, all (almost all) second hand boats are sold as seen. That's why we have surveys done...

Boo2

 

[st599]

No issues for RCD on a Norway boat? Many posts in this thread have said otherwise.

No issues taking it to the EU as Norway and the EU share regulatory regimes. When we left the single market, we made our own regulatory regime.

 

[thvoyager]

eeek one more question on this arduously long thread.. Maybe one day it will be part of the learning series of YBW

Some boats on Apollo Duck saying "VAT PAID", some have nothing listed, I assume some don't have VAT paid.
If so how are they getting away with it?

 

[mrming]

eeek one more question on this arduously long thread.. Maybe one day it will be part of the learning series of YBW

Some boats on Apollo Duck saying "VAT PAID", some have nothing listed, I assume some don't have VAT paid.
If so how are they getting away with it?

It could be a mixture:
- Some boats VAT paid
- Some not
- Some where the advertiser hasn’t added the data correctly
Best to clarify the VAT paid status when you first speak to the seller or broker.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

eeek one more question on this arduously long thread.. Maybe one day it will be part of the learning series of YBW

Some boats on Apollo Duck saying "VAT PAID", some have nothing listed, I assume some don't have VAT paid.
If so how are they getting away with it?

If I've understood the rules correctly, the only way a boat in the UK can NOT be VAT paid is if it was owned by a VAT registered company as part of the assets of the company and the company claimed VAT on it. In that case, the company selling it should charge VAT as part of the transaction. But @Tranona will give chapter and verse. Any privately owned vessel kept continuously in the UK must be VAT paid, though evidence may be lacking for older boats - I'm not sure I could prove that VAT had been paid on my 1989 Moody, as the only evidence would be a VAT receipt from the builders to the original owner; it may be in the file box of stuff I have - but I've never looked for it, and there was never a requirement for people to preserve that kind of thing! Further, a vessel can lose VAT paid status by being exported and then reimported. However, a trail of evidence showing she was never exported would probably be sufficient. Most vessels you see advertised as VAT not paid will be ex-charter vessels.

 

[Tranona]

eeek one more question on this arduously long thread.. Maybe one day it will be part of the learning series of YBW

Some boats on Apollo Duck saying "VAT PAID", some have nothing listed, I assume some don't have VAT paid.
If so how are they getting away with it?

Nobody (well almost) is getting away with it. It is just a non issue, but it has become habit to include "VAT paid" in adverts. It is extremely difficult to have a boat non VAT paid unless it is owned as a commercial asset by a VAT registered entity. As you can imagine HMRC are pretty strict on who they allow to do this.

As you will have gathered if you have followed closely, boats can acquire "VAT paid" status in a number of ways, one of which is by being in the UK on B day which in theory would allow even illegal boats to claim VAT paid.

There are always exceptions to this general rule as there are several obscure reliefs that can allow boats o be in the UK without paying VAT, but in most cases they are not in private use and if sold for use in the UK would be subject to VAT. If advertised they would clearly state VAT not paid or VAT reclaimable.

 

[thvoyager]

Well I think I am going for a UK 'VAT PAID' vessel, this will allow me to liv and sail in UK waters as well as take advantage of the EU 18/1 rule. I won't even worry about the complexities of the Caribbean or South America just yet ?.

UK yacht brokers come at me, I have money to drown!!

 

[westernman]

To add more obfuscation to what Tranona already said, a boat built before 1985 is "deemed to have VAT paid status" if it was in private ownership and within the EU at midnight on 31 December 1992.

Therefore a boat in the UK can be "deemed to have VAT paid status" without VAT ever having been paid.

 

[Portofino]

Well I think I am going for a UK 'VAT PAID' vessel, this will allow me to liv and sail in UK waters as well as take advantage of the EU 18/1 rule. I won't even worry about the complexities of the Caribbean or South America just yet ?.

UK yacht brokers come at me, I have money to drown!!

If we don‘t hear from you , can we assume you have bought it and just SSR it , placed a red on the flagpole and enjoyed a happy sail back to the U.K. with a tight lipped crew ?

 

[thvoyager]

We can finally end this thread, I am leaving the boat, going to join RYA, sek advice I need if needed, but won't be as extensive now as I think I am going to buy a boat from UK where I don't have to faff about with RCD/UKCA/VAT, and enjoy sailing and possibly living in UK waters if and when but also take full advantage of the EU 18/0.1 rule.
I had hoped we could have made it to 10 pages but alas, it was not meant to be.
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice on this record breaking thread, we had a good run. Sail safe amigos.

 

[Boo2]

...I'm not sure I could prove that VAT had been paid on my 1989 Moody, as the only evidence would be a VAT receipt from the builders to the original owner; it may be in the file box of stuff I have - but I've never looked for it, and there was never a requirement for people to preserve that kind of thing!...

There still is no requirement to preserve financial documents for tax purposes beyond 6 years and a VAT receipt would be such document.

...Further, a vessel can lose VAT paid status by being exported and then reimported. However, a trail of evidence showing she was never exported would probably be sufficient...

Again, the 6 year limitation applies and the obligation would be on HMRC to prove that a VATable transaction took place in those 6 years, not on the owner to prove it did not.

Boo2

 

[Tranona]

There still is no requirement to preserve financial documents for tax purposes beyond 6 years and a VAT receipt would be such document.

Again, the 6 year limitation applies and the obligation would be on HMRC to prove that a VATable transaction took place in those 6 years, not on the owner to prove it did not.

Boo2

That only applies to VAT registered entities. There is no requirement in law for an individua to keep any evidence of VAT payment whether it be for a boat or a TV or a new set of tyres for your car.

 

[Boo2]

That only applies to VAT registered entities. There is no requirement in law for an individua to keep any evidence of VAT payment whether it be for a boat or a TV or a new set of tyres for your car.

True, but there is a 6 year statute of limitations on tax debt so after that period no requirement to prove VAT status can arise (except where fraud is alleged).

Boo2

 

[Tranona]

True, but there is a 6 year statute of limitations on tax debt so after that period no requirement to prove VAT status can arise (except where fraud is alleged).

Boo2

But VAT cannot become a tax debt for the owner because he has no responsibility for paying it unless he was the importer. The only person that can have a debt is the entity that was accountable at the time of the original sale.

 

[Boo2]

But VAT cannot become a tax debt for the owner because he has no responsibility for paying it unless he was the importer. The only person that can have a debt is the entity that was accountable at the time of the original sale.

Is that true ? I understood it was settled on the boat and if sold on the tax man could claim it from the new owner or impound the boat until paid ?

Boo2

 

[Refueler]

Picture number 8 shows extensive water ingress, deck pretty much gone I suspect.

a 40 odd yr old boat with some evidence of damp in a 'veneer' ?? Extensive ????

The right hand area showing damp damage could easily have been due to a leak from the 'window' in the past ..... given the general appearance in other photo's - boat looks good for her age.

Deck gone ?? Really ?? Looks about average for such age ...

Subject to going on board and inspecting myself - I would if in the market for such seriously consider the boat.