Buying a boat in Norway... Looking for a surveyor -

[thvoyager]

I am from the UK. Found a sail yacht from 1980 in Norway. In Trondheim (centre).

This is my first boat. Iam loading myself with as much knowledge as possible, watching videos on boat surveys, how to do them, how to not do them, and why you will never be able to do it with no knowledge or experience. Still, any knowledge is better than no knowledge.

I want to look into getting a surveyor look it over.

My plan is to spend 3 days in Norway.

Day 1, view the boat myself and get a feel.
Day 2, if I like the boat, plan to meet surveyor on this day.
Day 3, relax.
Then come back in a few weeks and sail back with a yachtmaster or someone who isn't going to sink it!

Any good places to look?

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

You are aware that importing a boat from outside the UK means you will have to pay VAT AND have the boat certified to current UK standards.

Effectively what you plan to do is not practical.

If you are in the UK and want to keep the boat here, buy one here.

 

[thvoyager]

To be honest I did not know this.

When is the vat payable and who does this certification and what exactly does it include?

Yay to Brexit....

 

[westernman]

To be honest I did not know this.

When is the vat payable and who does this certification and what exactly does it include?

Yay to Brexit....

Biggest issue is that the certification requires that the engine conforms to some fairly recent emissions standards.
An engine designed in 1980 or before certainly won't. I.e. you will almost certainly need a new engine.

I agree with Tranona. If you are resident in the UK and plan on ever getting close to the UK in your boat, then best avoid buying abroad. Certainly do not get anything which does not have a RCD II certificate. That is before even talking about VAT etc.

 

[thvoyager]

Getting technical now.
What is a RCD II cert?

How long does a vessel have to come into the UK before being classed as part of the UK? A few months? 'Pending paperwork...'?

What other certs should I be aware of? Or anything else to do with buying a boat abroad.

Boats in the UK are nearly 2 times more than mainland europe, especially Scandi.

 

[westernman]

Getting technical now.
What is a RCD II cert?

How long does a vessel have to come into the UK before being classed as part of the UK? A few months? 'Pending paperwork...'?
What other certs should I be aware of? Or anything else to do with buying a boat abroad.

Boats in the UK are nearly 2 times more than mainland europe, especially Scandi.

You will need to pay VAT immediately. As soon as you arrive. Be prepared to justify the value. Obviously as low as possible.
Then before you use the boat, it will have to get its RCD II certification.

This will require installing a new engine, redoing the gas installation (if any).
A lot of other stuff will need taking care of (smoke detectors, CO detector, fire blanket, the required number of up to date fire extinguishers etc etc), but this will mostly be small beer compared to the cost of a new engine installation.

Here are the guidelines.
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/48294/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native

In particular digest well the meaning and implications of article 12 (private importers).

 

[thvoyager]

Thanks, very helpful.
New engine tho? Total rubbish really.

At this rate I would be better leaving it moored in Norway and just go back when I have done sailing courses and then travel and live on it as far away as possible from the UK.
Is it absolutely essential to get a new engine This baby is a 40hp Volvo Penta! What exactly is a new diesel engine really going to do?!

About value... Justify... You mean if I declare a lower value than I bought it for?

I definitely don't see bringing it to the UK as one of the best option now.. Though still in play, it just got a lot more expensive. I may just leave in country of origin till I am sailing.

How long do vessels get though if they are visiting a country?

 

[westernman]

Thanks, very helpful.
New engine tho? Total cr** really. This green nw agenda man I tell you! Taxation to the highest!!

Tax is not the real issue. A a new engine is.

At this rate I would be better leaving it moored in Norway and just go back when I have done sailing courses and then travel and live on it as far away as possible from the UK.

Yes

Is it absolutely essential to get a new engine This baby is a 40hp Volvo Penta! What exactly is a new diesel engine really going to do?!

A new engine is not going to do anything useful except overcome the biggest hurdle to getting your certificate!
Unless you can get the existing engine tested for conformity (hard and expensive) and that it complies with the lastest exhaust emissions (very unlikely).

About value... Justify... You mean if I declare a lower value than I bought it for?

Keep it for a couple of years before importing it. Then the boat has a considerably lower value due to wear and tear etc.
Also, you might get away with deducting at least part of the cost of a new engine - you are effectively importing a boat without an engine!

My boat was built in Canada for the previous owner. Its maiden voyage was to sail across the Atlantic to Cowes, Isle of Wight. It was imported there.
The value for the payment of VAT was about 1/3 of the construction cost.

The boat by the time it arrived was a used boat, not a new one, and presumably they did not clean it before any inspection!!

I definitely don't see bringing it to the UK as one of the best option now... One of the most corrupt.

Importing any pre 2013 boat into the UK from any where is problematic now thanks to you know what.
Before you know what there was no issue importing from the EU.

 

[ChromeDome]

Don't bring Brexit into this - Norway is not an EU member anyway, so even bringing a boat into an EU country will incur VAT, CE marking and what not.

 

[westernman]

Don't bring Brexit into this - Norway is not an EU member anyway, so even bringing a boat into an EU country will incur VAT, CE marking and what not.

Norway is in the EEA and hence is part of the EU's free movement of goods including boats.
So yes, Brexit does change things with respect to importing a boat in the UK from Norway.

 

[ChromeDome]

Norway is in the EEA and hence is part of the EU's free movement of goods including boats.
So yes, Brexit does change things with respect to importing a boat in the UK from Norway.

Nope. VAT must be paid when importing goods from Norway to an EU country.

 

[westernman]

Nope. VAT must be paid when importing goods from Norway to an EU country.

VAT and import duty must be paid before as Norway is not in the EU.
But no need for RCD II as it applies to EEA countries (which includes Norway). Read the document I linked to previously.

So yes, Brexit does make a big difference.

 

[Whiterose]

No RCD required ..you don’t need to change your engine.You do need to pay VAT but register the boat in the UK before and nobody is going to give a monkeys elbow.

 

[westernman]

No RCD required ..you don’t need to change your engine.You do need to pay VAT but register the boat in the UK before and nobody is going to give a monkeys elbow.

That is not what is said here:-
https://www.rya.org.uk/news/rya-and...tial-new-costs-of-trading-second-hand-vessels

Therefore, this means that a pre-owned vessel being imported from the EU to be placed on the UK market will, after 1 January 2022, be required to obtain a new UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark in line with the requirements of the RCR. In order to obtain a UKCA mark, a boat will require a Post Construction Assessment and third-party verification.

So, engine change is likely. UKCA is the same as RCD II (up to now - may change in the future). With regards to RCD, EU and EEA works the same.

 

[thvoyager]

All these governing bodies being busy bodies and just doing absolutely nothing productive!
I am sure the environmental impacts of mining metal for a new engine, shipping that metal 3 times around the world and then shipping to the uk as well as all the factories and other negative effects is a lot worse than what a a freshly serviced engine will produce!
Green New Deal is a scam.

 

[st599]

How long do vessels get though if they are visiting a country?

Depends on the country. A non-EU resident can temporarily import a yacht in to the EU for 18 months before VAT and import duty is due. You however are stuck with 90 in 180. You could seek either a tourist visa (only France do them but no good if you need to work), or get one of the short stay deals. Being aware that if the deal you enter in to includes residency, VAT will be immediately.

 

[Tranona]

Getting technical now.
What is a RCD II cert?

How long does a vessel have to come into the UK before being classed as part of the UK? A few months? 'Pending paperwork...'?

What other certs should I be aware of? Or anything else to do with buying a boat abroad.

Boats in the UK are nearly 2 times more than mainland europe, especially Scandi.

The boats in Norway are half the price because they are worthless as nobody wants to buy old boats there - just the same as old cars are worthless in the US but have potential high value in the UK.

Boats have a higher value in the UK because the are in the UK and can be used immediately here without any formalities.

Nothing new about the same assets having different values in different markets. The only thing that is difficult for the UK (and the EU) is that Brexit and the creation of 2 different markets when there was one is that a new set of rules applies and there is no longer free movement of goods from UK to EU and vice versa. For boats the EU buyer is jus as much a loser as before Brexit there was far greater movement of boats from the UK to the EU than the other way around.

There is absolutely nothing you can do legally to circumvent the rules.

 

[Portofino]

Where are you intending to keep it in the U.K. ?

 

[st599]

Just noticed in this month's RYA mag that there will be 2 sets of UK rules, UKCA and UKNI.

They have a new guide on personal imports coming out, looking at the RCD to UKCA requirements.

 

[thvoyager]

Where are you intending to keep it in the U.K. ?

I am looking into mooring options over the winter, then I plan to travel for the winter and mix in some work (freelance photographer) but position myself around an active sailing scene, do some intensive courses and try to get out on the sea with other sailors/boats people.