Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[PaulRainbow]

Re: Oddity project status.

Yes, you are right about the weight, but the land rover is near double the horsepower, cheap and easy to fix. It kind of fits the Oddity OTT ethos. Pie in the sky should have a green oval involved somewhere. Greg may be Quixotic in his quest, but what's wrong with tilting at windmills, he may yet prove us all wrong...

200TDi = 111bhp, normally aspirated XUD9 = 70bhp, with a turbo = 90bhp.

Bav 37 etc usually fitted with VP D1-30
Modern French boats, mid 40' typically 50hp, sometimes with a 75hp turbo option
My heavy old westerly would be considered almost overpowered at 42hp, it easily reaches hull speed without thrashing the engine.

But I'm sure Greg will be able to design a single cylinder engine that runs on fresh air, weighs less than a kilo and will generate enough electricity to run Scotland.

 

[pvb]

Re: Oddity project status.

My brother is a radar engineer with more diplomas then a wall can take. Trained in TACAM at Plessey, NATO Radar, etc etc etc. That’s his pet project and actually not too difficult or expensive to achieve. Most have a simpler version on the car they drive. It just beeps, but the signal can be converted to the thrusters. You can also do it with a camera. Most products you carry on your person or at home were manufactured with precision cameras for positioning. Your car. Etc. Cam allows for positioning from all sides so you don’t move out of one and crash into another. Simple software. Buses you drive on have more complicated software for VOIP .

Sure, I know all that, but I doubt that bow and stern thrusters would be very good at "emergency lateral mode collision avoidance".

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

200TDi = 111bhp, normally aspirated XUD9 = 70bhp, with a turbo = 90bhp.

Bav 37 etc usually fitted with VP D1-30
Modern French boats, mid 40' typically 50hp, sometimes with a 75hp turbo option
My heavy old westerly would be considered almost overpowered at 42hp, it easily reaches hull speed without thrashing the engine.

But I'm sure Greg will be able to design a single cylinder engine that runs on fresh air, weighs less than a kilo and will generate enough electricity to run Scotland.

I have, but I'm still wating for a delivery of Unobtainium for the engine internal Nuclear Fission reactor. So I can't deploy it yet. But soon I'll be Woooooshing by on the Solent and UFO reports are going to spike.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Re: Oddity project status.

My brother is a radar engineer with more diplomas then a wall can take. Trained in TACAM at Plessey, NATO Radar, F16's P3 Orion and other Aircraft. etc etc etc. That’s his pet project and actually not too difficult or expensive to achieve. Most have a simpler version on the car they drive. It just beeps, but the signal can be converted to the thrusters. You can also do it with a camera. Most products you carry on your person or at home were manufactured with precision cameras for positioning. Your car. Etc. Cam allows for positioning from all sides so you don’t move out of one and crash into another. Simple software. Buses you drive on have more complicated software for VOIP .

Back to working for me.

PS- You need to start a comment like that in a different way. “ well I foresee technical difficulties” or “is there software readily available that can do that? “ “ what about the (this or that) “
That way it actually profits everyone and helps spot anything we may have missed or misjudged.

We all know it's doable. Mobos with dual thrusters and IPS drives do all sorts of wonderous things.

As a fellow old boat owner, i like the simplicity of a single diesel lump, no thrusters, and i single hand

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Sure, I know all that, but I doubt that bow and stern thrusters would be very good at "emergency lateral mode collision avoidance".

They can be set to a parameter that if your aproaching to fast, they execute a command for a few seconds. Like your car beeping when you park.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

We all know it's doable. Mobos with dual thrusters and IPS drives do all sorts of wonderous things.

As a fellow old boat owner, i like the simplicity of a single diesel lump, no thrusters, and i single hand

yeah, i'm not too fussed but my brother is having his fun and I bet it can be interesting to play with it. And who knows it may actually work fine. As it does not interfere with primary thruster control I think it could be interesting.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

At the moment we have not yet decided on engine but I'm looking at all pros and cons, we have time for a proper decision.

sorry i'm so short on answers but busy at the moment.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Re: Oddity project status.

yeah, i'm not too fussed but my brother is having his fun and I bet it can be interesting to play with it. And who knows it may actually work fine. As it does not interfere with primary thruster control I think it could be interesting.

The concept is not uninteresting and if thrusters were in place anyway it could, as you say, be disregarded if it didn't work. Can honestly say that i've never seen an old 33 foot sail boat with bow and stern thrusters though.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: Oddity project status.

I think I've mentioned this before, but you don't seem to have listed a mast or standing rigging.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

I think I've mentioned this before, but you don't seem to have listed a mast or standing rigging.

You’re right, I have not included it. There are various possibilities we're exploring. We can have a new unused Selden Boom with fittings that was for a 46 footer for a couple hundred, we seen a few masts and got offers on a couple others, but it remains a fast evolving subject.
The rigging is another matter. I will be making it myself and will purchase the stainless wiring in bulk. I do have to have a key made for my old trusted Hydraulic press for some of it.
Needless to say, and as you can see, at this stage very hard to put a price on it. We did have an offer of 3k for mast and boom.
We remain committed to nothing at the moment. Just looking for the best deal / benefits possible and hunting high and low.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

The concept is not uninteresting and if thrusters were in place anyway it could, as you say, be disregarded if it didn't work. Can honestly say that i've never seen an old 33 foot sail boat with bow and stern thrusters though.

with the electric propulsion you could in theory stop the boat dead in the water pulling it back a meter or 2 using a combination of thruster and propulsion.
But it’s not I must add a priority, just an interesting side project.
Hey. She’s not an “old” boat, She’s NEVER been splashed and she will be new when we finish.
But the thrusters are a must, High windage, Heavy displacement, Long keel? Close quarters in a windy marina should be fun. We go for thrusters. Not too difficult to manufacture.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

I still think using a land rover 200/300tdi engine is an option for your ideas. They have a good rear bellhousing flange with a ring of bolts making adaptor plates easy. They are simple and tough, spares very cheap and available in every corner of the world. Not as heavy as people like to think they are either. It is also easy to use the power steering pump for whatever hydraulic applications you might have, and easy to add more alternators/generator if you want to. If you want to come and have a look at and a measure of one, give me a shout.

Thanks dude, I may take you up just out of curiosity, not that far on it yet.

With Karen's stuff, and the very limited space on our old 24 ft yacht, she has a clothing rail and box in one of my workshops, which has the extra "just in case" stuff here to hand, so she can just grab what she actually needs for the trip and put that on board. It has reduced the amount of gear we have to bring when we go out, the only lugging now are the essential food and drinks. You could do the same with leaving some stuff on the colvic I guess? The "mess/clutter" of clothes in the boat was a huge bone of contention before we agreed this compromise.

Yeah I got there fast, some stuff will be stowed in Oddity before filling a 22 so much I cannot get in. My wifes not too bad (except the pillows and paintings and, and.. she’ll kill me if she ever reads this )

 

[solent clown]

Re: Oddity project status.

if you really are bothered about weight, what about an aircooled engine? There are some very tough military/industrial units out there, and no marinising to do.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

if you really are bothered about weight, what about an aircooled engine? There are some very tough military/industrial units out there, and no marinising to do.

Problem with that is that a military grade simple screw not only needs a different key as they have a different key angle, they also cost a bundle and are normally sold in 1K unit packs. Then there’s the fact they are not really known to be very silent and finding spares is a nightmare. Some are still no sell years after the engine is no longer under commission.
Main reason why commercial planes get flat and exploding tires while military planes have burst and flat proof tyres on. ( there are other dumb reasons for that as well )

Funny enough even after the engine gets decommissioned by the military, some parts and spares remain under the official secrets act.

 

[solent clown]

Re: Oddity project status.

Problem with that is that a military grade simple screw not only needs a different key as they have a different key angle, they also cost a bundle and are normally sold in 1K unit packs. Then there’s the fact they are not really known to be very silent and finding spares is a nightmare. Some are still no sell years after the engine is no longer under commission.
Main reason why commercial planes get flat and exploding tires while military planes have burst and flat proof tyres on. ( there are other dumb reasons for that as well )

Funny enough even after the engine gets decommissioned by the military, some parts and spares remain under the official secrets act.

try thinking easteuro/ russian, lots out there, cheap too, but as you say, noisy.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Sometimes life is funny, there are not many that have been produced of the Colvic Countess 33, we’ve been trying to see one for some time to get some ideas.
Then I’m walking down the pontoon at the Marina where Selkie is, and it IS a small marina.. and I see this.

Off course we took a good look at the cabin door and steering and and.. hehe

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

try thinking easteuro/ russian, lots out there, cheap too, but as you say, noisy.

Noisy is an understatement I’m afraid. Besides I could be targeted by NATO members as a Russian Sub and get fly by flights and with Trump with the finger on the button you really don’t wanna do that.

 

[solent clown]

Re: Oddity project status.

Noisy is an understatement I’m afraid. Besides I could be targeted by NATO members as a Russian Sub and get fly by flights and with Trump with the finger on the button you really don’t wanna do that.

You are right about noise. But I I tell you one thing, in the late 1980s we were still messing about with some Tatra engines, huge v configured aircooled in development as mules in smaller AFVs and some soft skinned vehicles for arctic/sub arctic use. The noise in a boat would not be in acceptable limits for pleasure, which is a shame as air cooled has such a great theoretical advantage for boats, but it just does not pan out.
With your DE unit are you going to use the engine to run a generator to run a motor? However you set it up, you may have options on weight distribution not easily available with a conventional prop and gbox. Either elec cables or hydraulic. I wish you luck with this, and hope you have the budget for it, we didnt. I am however doing it on a very small scale with a little riverboat just for fun. Easy small scale. I think the fundamental thing a lot of yacht guys dont get the idea of is the idea of a diesel electric isnt just to be super efficient - for us it was the idea that the engine could power the boat either directly or via a generator, but so could the batteries while the engine was off. I just could not figure it on our tiny budget. If you can get it to work, prove it, blog it, you have a product. I would stick the biggest punchiest engine in you can find for the weight, have a main genny, and hydrauic systems, and more than one alternator. Buy a big simple motor, nothing clever, and put all the bells and whistles before it. simple old motors a tad less efficient, but tough , cheap, and drive/generate. You can make them brake too if you want to

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

You are right about noise. But I I tell you one thing, in the late 1980s we were still messing about with some Tatra engines, huge v configured aircooled in development as mules in smaller AFVs and some soft skinned vehicles for arctic/sub arctic use. The noise in a boat would not be in acceptable limits for pleasure, which is a shame as air cooled has such a great theoretical advantage for boats, but it just does not pan out.
With your DE unit are you going to use the engine to run a generator to run a motor? However you set it up, you may have options on weight distribution not easily available with a conventional prop and gbox. Either elec cables or hydraulic. I wish you luck with this, and hope you have the budget for it, we didnt. I am however doing it on a very small scale with a little riverboat just for fun. Easy small scale. I think the fundamental thing a lot of yacht guys dont get the idea of is the idea of a diesel electric isnt just to be super efficient - for us it was the idea that the engine could power the boat either directly or via a generator, but so could the batteries while the engine was off. I just could not figure it on our tiny budget. If you can get it to work, prove it, blog it, you have a product. I would stick the biggest punchiest engine in you can find for the weight, have a main genny, and hydrauic systems, and more than one alternator. Buy a big simple motor, nothing clever, and put all the bells and whistles before it. simple old motors a tad less efficient, but tough , cheap, and drive/generate. You can make them brake too if you want to

The beauty of a Diesel Electric power train is that you can leave harbour on battery power alone, have max torque at your finger tips at any time. You can use the prop for regeneration. You cut fuel consumption by a huge margin if wisely used. Failure of Diesel can be compensated by a gen set or to some extent by solar and prop regeneration. Failure of motor compensated by a second unit. Minimal parts compared to conventional drive trains. You get to cruise in complete silence.
The diesels on sailboats suffer to bits for being under load most of the time and abused the rest of the time. As efficiency goes? No modern ship uses diesels. Only as Gen for electric power trains. There’s plenty of reason for that.
Sure people say yada yada yada the Diesel this and that and they have no idea they are being conned.
The same price of a new diesel engine for a sailboat allows for the build of a diesel electric drive train with spares galore and money in the bank for a meal at Harrods. And were talking CHEAP diesels.
I burn a motor and get a new one for a couple of hundred £ install it and off I go.. If you have 2 you’re still on the go.
Then there’s the fact that at low RPM I can have max torque and slip away without waking the whole marina on the tide at 4am.
There is NO single benefit from a traditional single Diesel drive train as opposed to diesel electric. I can run the Diesel at precisely the load needed and save a ton on fuel and repairs for overloading the diesel.
Second hand Diesel car for £ 500, marinizing £ 3000 (grossly overstated for purpose) electric motor x2 for £1k all the rest needed £1k and I get 80 to 90 HP for £5.5k
Dare anyone to find a new motor even 75HP for that price. You take £1.5 K from marinizing by fabricating a few parts and you’re down to £4k. But at this stage you have to consider this, your RANGE is exponentially multiplied and fuel consumption can be kept to a minimum if the house battery bank is being recharged by regeneration.
You can motor sail at low speed matching the input from solar and 2 knots is not bad if the alternative is to spend fuel or read a book and sunbake in the Ocean.

OK I’m sold, I’ll buy that !

A beautiful change from Diesel to Electric.

https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2015/11/2/advantages-of-electric-motor-vs-diesel

 

[PaulRainbow]

Re: Oddity project status.

You can motor sail at low speed matching the input from solar and 2 knots is not bad if the alternative is to spend fuel or read a book and sunbake in the Ocean.

If you are expecting to motor sail using electric and match it with solar power, you really are on cloud cuckoo land, you'll need to cover the whole boat with solar cells