Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

If you are expecting to motor sail using electric and match it with solar power, you really are on cloud cuckoo land, you'll need to cover the whole boat with solar cells

LOL I forgot that I had to explain that. MY BAD. Well you know the maths as well as I do. I Meant Range extension with regeneration. If you’re getting 15 AMPs solar and using 60 you’re drawing 45 from the battery bank instead of 60 increasing the range of the battery bank without having to cover your boat with a solar farm.
You caught me :ambivalence:

Hey you can actually do 6knots if you’re traveling to France at the right time. You go at 2 and tide adds 4 ( not necessarily in the general direction you want but hey ) :encouragement:

 

[Tranona]

Re: Oddity project status.

The beauty of a Diesel Electric power train is that you can leave harbour on battery power alone, have max torque at your finger tips at any time. You can use the prop for regeneration. You cut fuel consumption by a huge margin if wisely used. Failure of Diesel can be compensated by a gen set or to some extent by solar and prop regeneration. Failure of motor compensated by a second unit. Minimal parts compared to conventional drive trains. You get to cruise in complete silence.
The diesels on sailboats suffer to bits for being under load most of the time and abused the rest of the time. As efficiency goes? No modern ship uses diesels. Only as Gen for electric power trains. There’s plenty of reason for that.
Sure people say yada yada yada the Diesel this and that and they have no idea they are being conned.
The same price of a new diesel engine for a sailboat allows for the build of a diesel electric drive train with spares galore and money in the bank for a meal at Harrods. And were talking CHEAP diesels.
I burn a motor and get a new one for a couple of hundred £ install it and off I go.. If you have 2 you’re still on the go.
Then there’s the fact that at low RPM I can have max torque and slip away without waking the whole marina on the tide at 4am.
There is NO single benefit from a traditional single Diesel drive train as opposed to diesel electric. I can run the Diesel at precisely the load needed and save a ton on fuel and repairs for overloading the diesel.
Second hand Diesel car for £ 500, marinizing £ 3000 (grossly overstated for purpose) electric motor x2 for £1k all the rest needed £1k and I get 80 to 90 HP for £5.5k
Dare anyone to find a new motor even 75HP for that price. You take £1.5 K from marinizing by fabricating a few parts and you’re down to £4k. But at this stage you have to consider this, your RANGE is exponentially multiplied and fuel consumption can be kept to a minimum if the house battery bank is being recharged by regeneration.
You can motor sail at low speed matching the input from solar and 2 knots is not bad if the alternative is to spend fuel or read a book and sunbake in the Ocean.

OK I’m sold, I’ll buy that !

A beautiful change from Diesel to Electric.

https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2015/11/2/advantages-of-electric-motor-vs-diesel

As nonsense goes this is just about the biggest load of BS in the whole thread so far. Despite the millions thrown at this "diesel electric" idea by respectable people plus a whole bunch of hobbyists who generally have a far greater understanding of the issues than you display NOBODY has made it work.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. For example most ships are diesel powered, not diesel electric. The reason is very simple. There are too many power losses in converting diesel to electricity, storing it and then using it drive the propeller using an electric motor. The most efficient way of using the fuel is to use the diesel to power the propeller directly. Every cargo ship of bulk carrier is diesel powered, as are fishing boats, harbour vessels, barges and so on.

It is true that there are also many diesel electric boats, mostly cruise ships and short range ferries. The reasons for this are equally simple. For cruise ships the majority of power requirement is for electricity to run the hotel in the hull and propulsion is a small part of energy requirement. So it makes sense to use electric pod drives which also allow the vessel to dock with the minimum of outside assistance.

This is world away from a yacht auxiliary duty cycle where the prime energy requirement is for propulsion and the electrical power needs provided as a by product through an alternator, perhaps with solar as an additional top up.

You need to read the serious stuff that has been written about the subject and the research that has been carried out. The EU funded project undertaken by Nigel Calder, widely reported in the magazines explains exactly why what you are talking about is unachievable for a small yacht.

All your talk about massive reductions in fuel usage is the complete opposite of what happens. Energy is energy no matter how you produce it and if your drivetrain as you have described will typically involve power losses in the order of 15-20%, so your fuel consumption will increase by that amount.

Anyway keep on dreaming as it gives one something to laugh about, although it is sad in a way that somebody can be so disconnected from reality that they believe what they write - I assume you do?

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

As nonsense goes this is just about the biggest load of BS in the whole thread so far. Despite the millions thrown at this "diesel electric" idea by respectable people plus a whole bunch of hobbyists who generally have a far greater understanding of the issues than you display NOBODY has made it work.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. For example most ships are diesel powered, not diesel electric. The reason is very simple. There are too many power losses in converting diesel to electricity, storing it and then using it drive the propeller using an electric motor. The most efficient way of using the fuel is to use the diesel to power the propeller directly. Every cargo ship of bulk carrier is diesel powered, as are fishing boats, harbour vessels, barges and so on.

It is true that there are also many diesel electric boats, mostly cruise ships and short range ferries. The reasons for this are equally simple. For cruise ships the majority of power requirement is for electricity to run the hotel in the hull and propulsion is a small part of energy requirement. So it makes sense to use electric pod drives which also allow the vessel to dock with the minimum of outside assistance.

This is world away from a yacht auxiliary duty cycle where the prime energy requirement is for propulsion and the electrical power needs provided as a by product through an alternator, perhaps with solar as an additional top up.

You need to read the serious stuff that has been written about the subject and the research that has been carried out. The EU funded project undertaken by Nigel Calder, widely reported in the magazines explains exactly why what you are talking about is unachievable for a small yacht.

All your talk about massive reductions in fuel usage is the complete opposite of what happens. Energy is energy no matter how you produce it and if your drivetrain as you have described will typically involve power losses in the order of 15-20%, so your fuel consumption will increase by that amount.

Anyway keep on dreaming as it gives one something to laugh about, although it is sad in a way that somebody can be so disconnected from reality that they believe what they write - I assume you do?

Tranona, out of respect for you I would suggest you read the actual study. As I did. In it’s entirety.

What you state, is NOT factually correct and is your personal opinion based in your interpretation of the study. There are more projects and studies financed by the EU you should read them as well to have a more comprehensive view of the matter. Since then Solar planes have flown, Solar boats have sailed and there is even discussion of a Solar Ion Drive for satellites so they can achieve deep space capabilities.

Dates do matter, and in this case the tech available at the time of said study. 1 year in Electronic development is a world away from the last.

Siemens and Airbus also have various projects in the area with a partnership Siemens Airbus for a hybrid train for electric aircraft that flew in 2017. I’m also assuming you are including them in your NOBODY made it work. (I also would like to call your attention to the Volvo Hybrid drive trains Beta etc etc. you may need to inform them they have products that do not work on the catalogue)

Since 2014 there are a number of entities (and it’s referred in the study) that achieved different results as the measuring of some of the parameters is not a precise science and some measurements must be done opportunistically. (also referred in study)

Normally there’s also a process of review by peers. Some disagree with some of the parameters. (that’s a different can of worms I guess and has something to do with “sacred cows” to some extent.)

I’m further going to suggest that upon reading a study or white paper one does need to mind The Influence of Prior Knowledge and result distortion. There are too many studies on the subject as well.

I’m not going to post the conclusions of the study here because I think everyone reading your opinion AND mine should be able to read it for themselves and take their own conclusion.
Although I do call your attention for the part of LEAD ACID batteries and DIFFERENT results that the Authors felt compelled to include.
So here’s the LINK for said study.

https://cordis.europa.eu/result/rcn/57677_en.html

Important facts to note: engines used as powertrain. Electrical motors used. Battery type and control units. Propeller. Type of boat and Hull. Specific Hull types studied.

and an interesting Study

https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/7/9469845/different-meanings-from-same-data-research-science

 

[hockey]

Re: Oddity project status.

this is a troll

 

[pvb]

Re: Oddity project status.

LOL I forgot that I had to explain that. MY BAD. Well you know the maths as well as I do. I Meant Range extension with regeneration. If you’re getting 15 AMPs solar and using 60 you’re drawing 45 from the battery bank instead of 60 increasing the range of the battery bank without having to cover your boat with a solar farm.
You caught me :ambivalence:

Hmmm... a 720W motor, bet that'll get your 33 footer on the plane.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: Oddity project status.

After reading a couple more pages two expressions come to mind: Wishful thinking a silk purse out of a sows ear. It really is going from the sublime to the ridiculous, theres a third.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: Oddity project status.

Hey you can actually do 6knots if you’re traveling to France at the right time. You go at 2 and tide adds 4 ( not necessarily in the general direction you want but hey ) :encouragement:

Right, apart from the free energy rubbish above, this really backs up the suspicion that I have that you're not actually the great sailor that you claim. Your dinghy disaster, comments about where other boats should practice MoBs, dicking about wondering how one metre might go on the rig height, and your seeming obsession with marina exit/entry and manouevering on what's meant to be a blue water boat. Just doesn't add up.

Is it actually Phil's money that you're spending?

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Oddity project status.

We’ve been asked a few times where we are and what are we going to decide on some of the options for Oddity. It’s not a secret so here you have it all or most of it. There are a couple of things I may unintentionally have left off
So far all told when we priced it. We would come to £ 16.769.23

SV Oddity
Ongoing projects in Planning.

Bow and stern thruster units of the shelf industrial parts.
Command unit for Bow and stern Thrusters with auto mode and emergency lateral mode collision avoidance with integrated camera and software. (all of shelf parts) software open license.
3 Rasp Pi dedicated units. 4 high def of the shelf cams.
Electric propulsion or diesel electric propulsion 75 HP (marinized engine) EMISSION are important for us. No wish for an overpriced and underperforming engine with overpriced spares. You can find a car mech anywhere in the world but not a tractor mech. The propulsion WILL be Diesel Electric.
Navigation System Open CPN
Steering by cable, Oversized auto pilot for 50 footer
Ongoing discussion on stove, electric v gas. Undecided. Electric seems to be slightly ahead on most points.
Steering wheel in cockpit, not on cabin cockpit wall, In discussion is a second smaller wheel inside. We do have the space and configuration for it.
Alteration to the roof of stern cabin with a stainless teak deck platform flush with the protruding hatch (to be altered to an escape hatch)
Marine whippers on cabin port and stern windows the centre is covered mostly by the view of the mast.
Internal bulkhead forward to be altered to vertical plane. Chain and anchor locker to be changed to a V configuration with single hatch opening to Port. Windlass to be altered to middle of the hatch. (chain needs to fall free not against a sliding wall)
Bathing platform to be added.
A frame for solar to be added on stern with davits for dinghy.
Cabin door still with position undecided. (tending to starboard as opposed to centre)
Steering pulpit to be fabricated with instrument pad for direct controls of the vessel including power at hand reach.
Fridge to be manufactured in stainless steel drawers (thin Plate) to fit space.
Diesel tank to be manufactured in Stainless plate (3mm)
No wood on the outside, rubbing streak to be changed for Flexy teak or rubber. Grab rails Stainless with square round corner flat pipe.
Cleats to be repositioned
Propeller. no Idea. (yet) Probably not folding as we want power generation. Which we happily trade for a knot.
ALL items in METRIC, all navigation in METRIC.
Chain plates. Under development as we want to oversize the mast about 1m.
Insulation, closed cell foam mats.

And that’s where we are at the moment. A lot of searching for suppliers and a lot of hours on the phone, and on the car visiting all possible alternatives and pricing. Searching for bargains we accumulated already a plough anchor some running rigging, we have a lead on some fully battened sails, most of the cabling most of the pipping, some of the wood for the inside a bit of insulation, a set of cutlery ( a gift ) and a set of dinner plates and the all shebang. ( we can’t sail her yet, but we can eat)

There you go with our list of priorities. Yes.. I know, its taking longer then expected. But the money is short so we have to look hard and bargain even harder. Some of the things we aim to achieve need proper planning and research as well.

The Oddity Crew of Lunatics.

Thanks for the update Greg, I assume to get the full cost picture you will need to add in other costs such as survey, lift in ad out, storage costs etc,.Then the cost of keeping the other boat, lift out/in berthing etc. To get a true picture probably need to include travel costs, although these will obviously be less now you have the other boat to use
Would be interesting to see what the cost is so far, then again it may be wise not to add it up

 

[Spyro]

Re: Oddity project status.

I think I've read everything on this thread but I haven't heard you (Greg) mention how much battery capacity you will need. You're talking using battery power without running the diesel and regeneration from the prop when sailing. So presumably you have to store it all? Your build time was originally 6 months and you told posters catagorically that you could do it. We all know that isn't happening now and now you intend to develop new systems with thrusters and cameras, diesel electric drives, and heavy battery banks. And then there is talk of motoring across the channel at 2 knots with the help of a 4 knot tide????? If you had loads of time and money and you are doing this for a hobby then great but you've said you have limited budget so I assume you haven't. I've really enjoyed following this but it just seams to get more crazy every day. I still wish you best of luck with it and looking forward to the finished product but I don't think it will be soon.

 

[Iain C]

Re: Oddity project status.

We’ve been asked a few times where we are and what are we going to decide on some of the options for Oddity. It’s not a secret so here you have it all or most of it. There are a couple of things I may unintentionally have left off
So far all told when we priced it. We would come to £ 16.769.23

SV Oddity
Ongoing projects in Planning.

Bow and stern thruster units of the shelf industrial parts.
Command unit for Bow and stern Thrusters with auto mode and emergency lateral mode collision avoidance with integrated camera and software. (all of shelf parts) software open license.
3 Rasp Pi dedicated units. 4 high def of the shelf cams.
Electric propulsion or diesel electric propulsion 75 HP (marinized engine) EMISSION are important for us. No wish for an overpriced and underperforming engine with overpriced spares. You can find a car mech anywhere in the world but not a tractor mech. The propulsion WILL be Diesel Electric.
Navigation System Open CPN
Steering by cable, Oversized auto pilot for 50 footer
Ongoing discussion on stove, electric v gas. Undecided. Electric seems to be slightly ahead on most points.
Steering wheel in cockpit, not on cabin cockpit wall, In discussion is a second smaller wheel inside. We do have the space and configuration for it.
Alteration to the roof of stern cabin with a stainless teak deck platform flush with the protruding hatch (to be altered to an escape hatch)
Marine whippers on cabin port and stern windows the centre is covered mostly by the view of the mast.
Internal bulkhead forward to be altered to vertical plane. Chain and anchor locker to be changed to a V configuration with single hatch opening to Port. Windlass to be altered to middle of the hatch. (chain needs to fall free not against a sliding wall)
Bathing platform to be added.
A frame for solar to be added on stern with davits for dinghy.
Cabin door still with position undecided. (tending to starboard as opposed to centre)
Steering pulpit to be fabricated with instrument pad for direct controls of the vessel including power at hand reach.
Fridge to be manufactured in stainless steel drawers (thin Plate) to fit space.
Diesel tank to be manufactured in Stainless plate (3mm)
No wood on the outside, rubbing streak to be changed for Flexy teak or rubber. Grab rails Stainless with square round corner flat pipe.
Cleats to be repositioned
Propeller. no Idea. (yet) Probably not folding as we want power generation. Which we happily trade for a knot.
ALL items in METRIC, all navigation in METRIC.
Chain plates. Under development as we want to oversize the mast about 1m.
Insulation, closed cell foam mats.

And that’s where we are at the moment. A lot of searching for suppliers and a lot of hours on the phone, and on the car visiting all possible alternatives and pricing. Searching for bargains we accumulated already a plough anchor some running rigging, we have a lead on some fully battened sails, most of the cabling most of the pipping, some of the wood for the inside a bit of insulation, a set of cutlery ( a gift ) and a set of dinner plates and the all shebang. ( we can’t sail her yet, but we can eat)

There you go with our list of priorities. Yes.. I know, its taking longer then expected. But the money is short so we have to look hard and bargain even harder. Some of the things we aim to achieve need proper planning and research as well.

The Oddity Crew of Lunatics.

Automatic thruster based collision avoidance system and hybrid power? Oh dear, for a moment I thought you were actually making some tiny headway with this but having had a break from the thread and a skim over a few pages it would appear you are back to crazy unnecessary ideas and now another boat? What on earth is wrong with just keeping a good look out and using the rudder? Why do you need thrusters at both ends of a 33' boat for goodness sake? I thought you are trying to do this on the cheap...I suspect the combined miles sailed by every forumite reading this runs into the hundreds of thousands and I bet no-one has ever needed an automatic thruster collision avoidance system!!!!!

As for using a 200tdi...I'd probably avoid that. My own boat is similar in size to yours. It uses a 680cc 3 cylinder n/a Volvo developing 19HP and is plenty. You don't need 2500cc 4 cylinder turbocharged 111bhp to power your boat.

Well at least the penny is dropping about unworkable timescales...hopefully the budget and unnecessary complexity pennies won't be too far behind.

One thing I do think you've got spot on is the "lunatics" assesment though!

 

[solent clown]

Re: Oddity project status.

As for using a 200tdi...I'd probably avoid that. My own boat is similar in size to yours. It uses a 680cc 3 cylinder n/a Volvo developing 19HP and is plenty. You don't need 2500cc 4 cylinder turbocharged 111bhp to power your boat.

)

By the time all the generators motors and batteries are in he is going to need two

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Oh Ye Of Little Faith…

Meanwhile… on Cloud 9, Planet 6, We decide to use the energy of unicorns and sparkling butterflies to make little Selkie fit for water so we can go sailing.
Today were going to make Selkie ready by contemplation and playing gongs around her. Then the Great Spaghetti will materialise and she will be ready with a rainbow. Failing that we will use Crystals and invocations to the sirens of the deep and dance naked around Selkie until she floats in pink little clouds back to the water.

We will also help by grinding the last remaining bit of the port keel so we can paint her finally. Just in case the Great Spaghetti has other more important things to do. But really just as a last resort type of thing off course.
And in other GREAT NEWS!! The most important ITEM on the list is ready to be deployed on Selkie.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Oddity project status.

So here’s the LINK for said study.

https://cordis.europa.eu/result/rcn/57677_en.html

Important facts to note: engines used as powertrain. Electrical motors used. Battery type and control units. Propeller. Type of boat and Hull. Specific Hull types studied.

and an interesting Study

https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/7/9469845/different-meanings-from-same-data-research-science

Read that report again. There is NOT ONE MENTION of a sailboat auxiliary. I never said that hybrids were not viable - indeed I gave examples that show exactly the opposite - just not for yacht auxiliaries where Nigel Calder who knows far more about the subject than you or I has shown that a hybrid is not viable. This does not mean that in other applications it does not have potential. Indeed there are a number of canal boats already using Beta engined hybrids, and as the report says there are applications for harbour use and ferries. Indeed some of the IOW ferries have been diesel electric for as long as I can remember and Calmac are apparently now building one.

You need to work from first principles, looking at what moves the boat and the expected duty cycle. So the starting point is the propeller. Determine the propeller size needed for the length and weight of the boat (in your case probably a 16*12, then the shaft speed required and the horsepower needed to drive this. There are formula to do this - Calder has one as does Dave Ger. In practice you don't really need to do this as with a well known boat like yours we know that 35hp and a 2:1 reduction box is the optimum. If you are going to use an electric motor you need to have somewhat similar hp and shaft speed. It is impossible to fit large enough battery capacity to give more than a few hours range so you need to charge it somehow, so you need an IC engine anyway to achieve the planned duty cycle. Remember typical yacht usage (which you will find out when you actually get some experience of running a cruising yacht) alternates between a few minutes low speed work and hours of constant power usage at about 50% rated power. My last boat did 3500 engine hours and I would guess about 150 of those were at low speed and the rest at a constant 2400 rpm.

Your next task is how to fit all this into your boat, together with deciding whether you are going to drive everything through the electric motor or have the alternative of using either your IC or the electric motor. Both have been tried. The former is attractive as the motor can be mounted anywhere, but you still need to cool it, get rid of its waste and supply it with fuel, plus electronic controls to manage charging your electrical system. The alternative still requires the same diesel as for direct propulsion, but then you are going to add a second drive and an electric motor, plus an enlarged battery bank if you want some propulsion independent of the IC motor. This is all complicated, bulky and expensive - and will not actually fit in the space you have available, never mind costing as much as the whole budget you have for the boat.

There is nothing new in all this as electric propulsion has been mainstream (for certain applications) for over 100 years, diesel electric for about 50 years and hybrids for over 20 years and the basic constraints have barely changed. There is nothing in your wooly proposal - I call it wooly because there is no real detail, just a load of waffle, that is going to change this.

Oh, and please don't tell me how to assess the validity of research reports. After all I only spent 25 years teaching research methods at university and have supervised more PG research projects including doctorates than I can bear to think about. Add to that I have worked for marine engine manufacturers and owned cruising yachts since 1980, so I guess I must have learned something about this subject along the way.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Read that report again. There is NOT ONE MENTION of a sailboat auxiliary. I never said that hybrids were not viable - indeed I gave examples that show exactly the opposite - just not for yacht auxiliaries where Nigel Calder who knows far more about the subject than you or I has shown that a hybrid is not viable. This does not mean that in other applications it does not have potential. Indeed there are a number of canal boats already using Beta engined hybrids, and as the report says there are applications for harbour use and ferries. Indeed some of the IOW ferries have been diesel electric for as long as I can remember and Calmac are apparently now building one.

You need to work from first principles, looking at what moves the boat and the expected duty cycle. So the starting point is the propeller. Determine the propeller size needed for the length and weight of the boat (in your case probably a 16*12, then the shaft speed required and the horsepower needed to drive this. There are formula to do this - Calder has one as does Dave Ger. In practice you don't really need to do this as with a well known boat like yours we know that 35hp and a 2:1 reduction box is the optimum. If you are going to use an electric motor you need to have somewhat similar hp and shaft speed. It is impossible to fit large enough battery capacity to give more than a few hours range so you need to charge it somehow, so you need an IC engine anyway to achieve the planned duty cycle. Remember typical yacht usage (which you will find out when you actually get some experience of running a cruising yacht) alternates between a few minutes low speed work and hours of constant power usage at about 50% rated power. My last boat did 3500 engine hours and I would guess about 150 of those were at low speed and the rest at a constant 2400 rpm.

Your next task is how to fit all this into your boat, together with deciding whether you are going to drive everything through the electric motor or have the alternative of using either your IC or the electric motor. Both have been tried. The former is attractive as the motor can be mounted anywhere, but you still need to cool it, get rid of its waste and supply it with fuel, plus electronic controls to manage charging your electrical system. The alternative still requires the same diesel as for direct propulsion, but then you are going to add a second drive and an electric motor, plus an enlarged battery bank if you want some propulsion independent of the IC motor. This is all complicated, bulky and expensive - and will not actually fit in the space you have available, never mind costing as much as the whole budget you have for the boat.

There is nothing new in all this as electric propulsion has been mainstream (for certain applications) for over 100 years, diesel electric for about 50 years and hybrids for over 20 years and the basic constraints have barely changed. There is nothing in your wooly proposal - I call it wooly because there is no real detail, just a load of waffle, that is going to change this.

Oh, and please don't tell me how to assess the validity of research reports. After all I only spent 25 years teaching research methods at university and have supervised more PG research projects including doctorates than I can bear to think about. Add to that I have worked for marine engine manufacturers and owned cruising yachts since 1980, so I guess I must have learned something about this subject along the way.

Tranona,
I don’t doubt your knowledge and I have said that before. You have absolutely my respect and I hope I did demonstrate that in the way I answered.

My problem with Calder is the methodology he used for the study and his own views. There have been a number of other studies that disputed his results with different energy savings gains and different conclusions.

As to being complicated, from a technical point of view its actually quite simple with the problem being the combination of elements put together to create a solution that becomes feasible and affordable.
There is already a good number of sailboats and whole forums dedicated to the subject of changing to Electric / battery bank. You even have Sailing UMA on YouTube half way across the oceans in 2 years with nothing but a little battery bank a controller that burned out once and an eBay forklift motor that at times was a direct train attached to whatever prop they had on. (they changed it now for optimised performance) 2 Kids and a 36 foot sailboat on the very cheap. No smelly Diesel.
You’re right when you say that the task of figuring out how to best fit the whole shebang and deciding on Battery bank size and Type is a bit of a nightmare. But the good news is once past that is literally green sailing.
We do intend to convert to Electric. Budget constraints make it more challenging and interesting to say the least but we are men to the challenge.
It is also where the future is. Until we solve Fuel Cell technology to a better degree I’m afraid I’m stuck with Diesel, hopeful on new graphite membranes that show good progress. There are also a number of boats using them instead of Diesel. But in there I do think the tech is not yet at a stage I would consider.
We took the decision not long ago, there are a couple of options we are inclined to pursue but by no means decided.
Ours aims are also simple, Hull Speed for port ops, Range of 20 NM at around 5KN and longer range at low speed. This for the battery bank. When it comes to the diesel and fitting it to a 33 footer 6.5 tons we’re expecting to be able to extend the ranges by using the Diesel as a GEN Unit and to recharge the battery bank. The adding of the Diesel is nothing but a security feature as we do intend to have a Sailboat as opposed to a Motorboat.
The fallacy is you don’t actually need to go to extremes to achieve this. Even with losses and without optimization a small battery bank should give you enough power to leave / enter harbour and sail the rest of the way without using the Diesel except for any emergency and by plugging it to the mains to recharge. It is a sailboat after all and the Primary means of propulsion are indeed its sails.
When used wisely, it has already been widely demonstrated that there are massive savings in fuel costs as you are not using fuel to charge the Battery bank. For the common Yachtsman that hops from port to port and plugs the boat on the mains instead of charging at sea.
We’re not looking to break new ground here neither, there are plenty of solutions already in use with readily available schematic’s for even lay sailors to put to good use.
It also comes down to the fact, we WANT to go Electric as much as possible. I feel that buying an EXTREMELY overpriced and inefficient Diesel motor that the only redeeming characteristic is the mass of energy stored on a small amount of liquid does not benefit me or my wallet in anyway.
Its also fun to mess around with stuff and making things work is it not?
This is more at less where we stand at the moment, I will post what we decide when we finally decide on components and battery bank size and type. THEN it would be rather nice to have a proper discussion on the merits of one against the other.

 

[seaangler23]

Re: Oddity project status.

CalMac have a couple, we have one and opinions differ, publicity stunt has been mentioned and they won’t build more

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: Oddity project status.

I wonder with all the gubbins that is planned to be added where she is going to float, not on her design marks for sure, perhaps somewhere close to the gunnels.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Were lucky she stands high in the water

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

CalMac have a couple, we have one and opinions differ, publicity stunt has been mentioned and they won’t build more

same with electric cars... testing in Lab conditions leaves you on the road half way where you want to get stuck to an outlet. It does give you quality reading time on a perhaps busy day.

 

[pvb]

Re: Oddity project status.

Ours aims are also simple, Hull Speed for port ops, Range of 20 NM at around 5KN and longer range at low speed. This for the battery bank.

Yes, that's a simple requirement. You'll just need a 10kW electric motor and around 30kWh of high quality deep cycle batteries - say around 40 decent sized 12v batteries.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Thanks for the update Greg, I assume to get the full cost picture you will need to add in other costs such as survey, lift in ad out, storage costs etc,.Then the cost of keeping the other boat, lift out/in berthing etc. To get a true picture probably need to include travel costs, although these will obviously be less now you have the other boat to use
Would be interesting to see what the cost is so far, then again it may be wise not to add it up

Well the cost of the survey was around the £ 200 mark as it was just a hull inspection, the rest we have not factored in. But fuel alone has been the main Glutton in costs.
I’ll post a proper update at some stage later.
I’m afraid a we have been running like crazy the past few weeks.

Yo umay have a point in not adding it up :ambivalence: