Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[pvb]

Re: Oddity project status.

Lol Dude, seriously? Hybrid? from the start?

look at mine and Tranona posts. ^^

Yes, I looked at what you wrote...

Ours aims are also simple, Hull Speed for port ops, Range of 20 NM at around 5KN and longer range at low speed. This for the battery bank. When it comes to the diesel and fitting it to a 33 footer 6.5 tons we’re expecting to be able to extend the ranges by using the Diesel as a GEN Unit and to recharge the battery bank. The adding of the Diesel is nothing but a security feature as we do intend to have a Sailboat as opposed to a Motorboat.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Ah, so now you're changing your story to fit the facts we've presented. Classic!

MY bad :ambivalence: that's wrong, there would be no point on a diesel Gen like that. Mea Culpa

old age? youre right. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: Oddity project status.

Tranona,
I don’t doubt your knowledge and I have said that before. You have absolutely my respect and I hope I did demonstrate that in the way I answered.

My problem with Calder is the methodology he used for the study and his own views. There have been a number of other studies that disputed his results with different energy savings gains and different conclusions.

As to being complicated, from a technical point of view its actually quite simple with the problem being the combination of elements put together to create a solution that becomes feasible and affordable.
There is already a good number of sailboats and whole forums dedicated to the subject of changing to Electric / battery bank. You even have Sailing UMA on YouTube half way across the oceans in 2 years with nothing but a little battery bank a controller that burned out once and an eBay forklift motor that at times was a direct train attached to whatever prop they had on. (they changed it now for optimised performance) 2 Kids and a 36 foot sailboat on the very cheap. No smelly Diesel.
You’re right when you say that the task of figuring out how to best fit the whole shebang and deciding on Battery bank size and Type is a bit of a nightmare. But the good news is once past that is literally green sailing.
We do intend to convert to Electric. Budget constraints make it more challenging and interesting to say the least but we are men to the challenge.
It is also where the future is. Until we solve Fuel Cell technology to a better degree I’m afraid I’m stuck with Diesel, hopeful on new graphite membranes that show good progress. There are also a number of boats using them instead of Diesel. But in there I do think the tech is not yet at a stage I would consider.
We took the decision not long ago, there are a couple of options we are inclined to pursue but by no means decided.
Ours aims are also simple, Hull Speed for port ops, Range of 20 NM at around 5KN and longer range at low speed. This for the battery bank. When it comes to the diesel and fitting it to a 33 footer 6.5 tons we’re expecting to be able to extend the ranges by using the Diesel as a GEN Unit and to recharge the battery bank. The adding of the Diesel is nothing but a security feature as we do intend to have a Sailboat as opposed to a Motorboat.
The fallacy is you don’t actually need to go to extremes to achieve this. Even with losses and without optimization a small battery bank should give you enough power to leave / enter harbour and sail the rest of the way without using the Diesel except for any emergency and by plugging it to the mains to recharge. It is a sailboat after all and the Primary means of propulsion are indeed its sails.
When used wisely, it has already been widely demonstrated that there are massive savings in fuel costs as you are not using fuel to charge the Battery bank. For the common Yachtsman that hops from port to port and plugs the boat on the mains instead of charging at sea.
We’re not looking to break new ground here neither, there are plenty of solutions already in use with readily available schematic’s for even lay sailors to put to good use.
It also comes down to the fact, we WANT to go Electric as much as possible. I feel that buying an EXTREMELY overpriced and inefficient Diesel motor that the only redeeming characteristic is the mass of energy stored on a small amount of liquid does not benefit me or my wallet in anyway.
Its also fun to mess around with stuff and making things work is it not?
This is more at less where we stand at the moment, I will post what we decide when we finally decide on components and battery bank size and type. THEN it would be rather nice to have a proper discussion on the merits of one against the other.

No, you have either not read well or I failed to get the point across, were using the Diesel as a GEN unit to power the electric motor, were using the reference of 20 NM as a reference for Gen use. Therefore, Hybrid Electric. My bad if such is the case. But Hybrid Electric IS what we are going for exactly not to be completely dependent on Battery bank alone. You need to factor that. We mean to use battery power simply for port ops. not Long range. No sense in doing a Hybrid unit if not to be used.

Think you said it quite clearly. It is for the battery bank. If you only intend motor power to get you in and out of port and anchorages it would work but hey you could just strap the outboard on and achieve the same thing. I seem to remember you had some ambitions for high latitude sailing, well you are going to need the ability to move under engine a lot more than you think. And finally what is the point of doing it for a fraction of a % of your motoring time. It really doesn't make sense.

 

[GregOddity]

Re: Oddity project status.

Think you said it quite clearly. It is for the battery bank. If you only intend motor power to get you in and out of port and anchorages it would work but hey you could just strap the outboard on and achieve the same thing. I seem to remember you had some ambitions for high latitude sailing, well you are going to need the ability to move under engine a lot more than you think. And finally what is the point of doing it for a fraction of a % of your motoring time. It really doesn't make sense.

Ok to clarify that: we decided on a Hybrid system as opposed to Diesel or Electric only for the latitude that the system offers. Port in/ out on battery power alone, some low speed motor sailing perhaps, 2 ktn in calm seas does make a difference.
Any sort of long range the GEN gets turned on to power the electric motor. In this case we decided for a marinized engine as that can also be used for direct thrust and has advantages as redundancy. We intend to use it only or as much as possible as GEN.
That’s where we are. Sorry for the confusion on that. Did not sleep with the heat. Brain is fuzzy ( more than normally that is)

 

[solent clown]

Re: Oddity project status.

best bet, fit the land rover engine, and the gearbox, then you have two drive flanges plus a power take off. You could fit the axles too, with some sand paddle tyres, they are great in the water, and you would save a mint in mooring fees

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: Oddity project status.

Tranona,
I don’t doubt your knowledge and I have said that before. You have absolutely my respect and I hope I did demonstrate that in the way I answered.

My problem with Calder is the methodology he used for the study and his own views. There have been a number of other studies that disputed his results with different energy savings gains and different conclusions.

As to being complicated, from a technical point of view its actually quite simple with the problem being the combination of elements put together to create a solution that becomes feasible and affordable.
There is already a good number of sailboats and whole forums dedicated to the subject of changing to Electric / battery bank. You even have Sailing UMA on YouTube half way across the oceans in 2 years with nothing but a little battery bank a controller that burned out once and an eBay forklift motor that at times was a direct train attached to whatever prop they had on. (they changed it now for optimised performance) 2 Kids and a 36 foot sailboat on the very cheap. No smelly Diesel.
You’re right when you say that the task of figuring out how to best fit the whole shebang and deciding on Battery bank size and Type is a bit of a nightmare. But the good news is once past that is literally green sailing.
We do intend to convert to Electric. Budget constraints make it more challenging and interesting to say the least but we are men to the challenge.
It is also where the future is. Until we solve Fuel Cell technology to a better degree I’m afraid I’m stuck with Diesel, hopeful on new graphite membranes that show good progress. There are also a number of boats using them instead of Diesel. But in there I do think the tech is not yet at a stage I would consider.
We took the decision not long ago, there are a couple of options we are inclined to pursue but by no means decided.
Ours aims are also simple, Hull Speed for port ops, Range of 20 NM at around 5KN and longer range at low speed. This for the battery bank. When it comes to the diesel and fitting it to a 33 footer 6.5 tons we’re expecting to be able to extend the ranges by using the Diesel as a GEN Unit and to recharge the battery bank. The adding of the Diesel is nothing but a security feature as we do intend to have a Sailboat as opposed to a Motorboat.
The fallacy is you don’t actually need to go to extremes to achieve this. Even with losses and without optimization a small battery bank should give you enough power to leave / enter harbour and sail the rest of the way without using the Diesel except for any emergency and by plugging it to the mains to recharge. It is a sailboat after all and the Primary means of propulsion are indeed its sails.
When used wisely, it has already been widely demonstrated that there are massive savings in fuel costs as you are not using fuel to charge the Battery bank. For the common Yachtsman that hops from port to port and plugs the boat on the mains instead of charging at sea.
We’re not looking to break new ground here neither, there are plenty of solutions already in use with readily available schematic’s for even lay sailors to put to good use.
It also comes down to the fact, we WANT to go Electric as much as possible. I feel that buying an EXTREMELY overpriced and inefficient Diesel motor that the only redeeming characteristic is the mass of energy stored on a small amount of liquid does not benefit me or my wallet in anyway.
Its also fun to mess around with stuff and making things work is it not?
This is more at less where we stand at the moment, I will post what we decide when we finally decide on components and battery bank size and type. THEN it would be rather nice to have a proper discussion on the merits of one against the other.

Ok to clarify that: we decided on a Hybrid system as opposed to Diesel or Electric only for the latitude that the system offers. Port in/ out on battery power alone, some low speed motor sailing perhaps, 2 ktn in calm seas does make a difference.
Any sort of long range the GEN gets turned on to power the electric motor. In this case we decided for a marinized engine as that can also be used for direct thrust and has advantages as redundancy. We intend to use it only or as much as possible as GEN.
That’s where we are. Sorry for the confusion on that. Did not sleep with the heat. Brain is fuzzy ( more than normally that is)

It just doesn't make sense you are going to build a diesel generator from a marinised motor engine to drive an electric motor to drive a conventional drive train. You are simple introducing additional inefficiencies into the system. The best you could possibly hope for is low 80% efficiency in producing electrical current to drive the motor that in turn will induce an admittedly small but an inefficiency into the operation. In terms of overall efficiency you are better off just using the marinised engine for propulsion. I will be charitable and say you are letting idealistic ecological lala land thinking cloud your judgement.

 

[Iain C]

Re: Oddity project status.

More to the point about 95 pages and 3 months ago you said you'd given up on the idea of hybrid power and were going diesel IIRC...yawn...

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: Oddity project status.

best bet, fit the land rover engine, and the gearbox, then you have two drive flanges plus a power take off. You could fit the axles too, with some sand paddle tyres, they are great in the water, and you would save a mint in mooring fees

Better yet, use matching Landy front axles and you wouldn't need the thrusters.

 

[Tranona]

Re: Oddity project status.

No, you have either not read well or I failed to get the point across, were using the Diesel as a GEN unit to power the electric motor, were using the reference of 20 NM as a reference for Gen use. Therefore, Hybrid Electric. My bad if such is the case. But Hybrid Electric IS what we are going for exactly not to be completely dependent on Battery bank alone. You need to factor that. We mean to use battery power simply for port ops. not Long range. No sense in doing a Hybrid unit if not to be used.

Then show us your sums that indicate that a generator can provide sufficient charge to supply the electric motor using less fuel than using it to drive the propeller direct.

Your target of 20 NM at 5 knots is pitiful. As your spreadsheet shows achieving this with electricity is a non starter because you don't have enough space to mount the batteries, nor any way of recharging them short of having a powerful generator. This gets back to the fundamental argument you offer in that you are going to provide this generating capacity at "low cost" as the only way you can do this is to use a 35hp diesel engine which means you have to cool it and dispose of its waste. Sounds suspiciously like the 35hp engine that Beta already use in their hybrid and what will be perfect for driving the boat for several hundred miles coupled direct to the propeller as well as producing all the electricity you need for domestic use as a by product.

Time to come off the fence and declare exactly what this magic generating engine is that does not need plumbing in and does not cost anything. You might also explain why the existing developers of hybrid power units do not use it already.

By the way the existing hybrid manufacturers have fallen over themselves trying to interest yacht builders in their products. One builder made a run of catamarans fitted with hybrids for the charter market. Guess what - they proved to use more fuel than standard boats, were complex and needed higher maintenance so were quietly dropped.

There is zero interest in the concept from potential buyers because most are intelligent people and would not choose something that is more expensive to buy and run, took up more space and needed extra maintenance for no benefit other than running quietly for 5 minutes at the beginning and end of a sail.

So the only people who are playing with this idea are what I call the hobbyists who feature on your youtube videos. All without exception meet the limitations quickly and either live with them or give up.

 

[Skylark]

In the same way that Monty Pythons Flying Circus was entertaining ?

This is a grossly unfair statement!

I’m of an age to have very fond memories of MPFC. It was contemporary and funny.

This 2018 contemporary thread is more Keith Lemon. Not funny. It stretched the limits of credibility a very long time ago but I remain impressed by the tenacity of the several level headed posters who are, sadly, feeding the troll.

Perpetual motion drive with autonomous bow and stern thruster collision avoidance systems. You simply couldn’t make this up, could you? I’m convinced that Greg is a pseudonym for undergraduate ghost writers studying for a degree at the Royal Academy of Performing Arts.

 

[Spyro]

This is a grossly unfair statement!

I’m of an age to have very fond memories of MPFC. It was contemporary and funny.

This 2018 contemporary thread is more Keith Lemon. Not funny. It stretched the limits of credibility a very long time ago but I remain impressed by the tenacity of the several level headed posters who are, sadly, feeding the troll.

Perpetual motion drive with autonomous bow and stern thruster collision avoidance systems. You simply couldn’t make this up, could you? I’m convinced that Greg is a pseudonym for undergraduate ghost writers studying for a degree at the Royal Academy of Performing Arts.

It is all getting a bit silly now, from someone who wanted to go sailing in six months time from starting the build and at a budget.
I could see someone who wanted to mess about with the idea and who has all the time in the world to do it making a hobby out of it but Greg wants this boat to go long term cruising. It's a waste of huge amounts of time and effort. Not to mention cash. If he had a boat that was already seaworthy and as a bit of a hobby or challenge he wanted to plop in a new hybrid system with parking sensors etc then why not. But he has a bare hull and so many other things to do before it's even ready to be launched. I'd like to know what his new timescale is.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

What bothers me slightly more than Greg's disconnect from reality is that he has adopted Phil, posing as some kind of sailing and health guru and I'm becoming convinced that it's all bluster. Greg also claimed to be an engineer - oddly one that can't work out easy stuff like Kilowatts in his head, or spot that main and cockpit bulkheads might be structural. It also bothers me that this could all be Phil's savings going on hardstanding, marina fees and pointless surveyors now, with Lord knows what stupid expenditure in the future.

 

[pvb]

What bothers me slightly more than Greg's disconnect from reality is that he has adopted Phil, posing as some kind of sailing and health guru and I'm becoming convinced that it's all bluster. Greg also claimed to be an engineer - oddly one that can't work out easy stuff like Kilowatts in his head, or spot that main and cockpit bulkheads might be structural. It also bothers me that this could all be Phil's savings going on hardstanding, marina fees and pointless surveyors now, with Lord knows what stupid expenditure in the future.

Greg's a qualified welder, so I suppose that's some sort of engineering. But it is surprising that he seems to have no concept of the sort of instinctive practical thoughts which genuine engineers have. As for Phil's finances, that's none of anyone's business, but I'm confident that Greg would always have Phil's best interests at heart - they go back a long way.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Greg's a qualified welder, so I suppose that's some sort of engineering. But it is surprising that he seems to have no concept of the sort of instinctive practical thoughts which genuine engineers have. As for Phil's finances, that's none of anyone's business, but I'm confident that Greg would always have Phil's best interests at heart - they go back a long way.

Pity you can't weld GRP then.

 

[GregOddity]

Greg's a qualified welder, so I suppose that's some sort of engineering. But it is surprising that he seems to have no concept of the sort of instinctive practical thoughts which genuine engineers have. As for Phil's finances, that's none of anyone's business, but I'm confident that Greg would always have Phil's best interests at heart - they go back a long way.

+1

 

[GregOddity]

Guys, a quick Word.

I don’t mind, trying to explain our ideas to you guys. But just in case you have not noticed, there are quite a few people that enjoy coming here and read the thread either for fun or because they like what we are doing.

Then there are the "others"
From the start, some have been very dismissive, others very supportive.

There are a few types of people on this world, the Dismissive ones that say a lot and achieve nothing tangible except stroke their own ego. The Hypocritical ones always looking for a flaw as a way to justify perhaps their own shortcomings. And the ones that come here to really trade Ideas and do something they like with like minded people.

Anything said that is not the accepted way of doing things gets normally shot down in flames and many a poster just gives up.

Me and Phil are on a long trip. We’re making a boat that we intend to sail if possible around our beautiful Oceans. We don’t need your approval or judgement. Or even care either way. Some of the things we intend are indeed considered outside the envelope. But we have fun doing them and building stuff. And trying stuff. Some works some does not. For us it’s a work of love. We don’t need saving. We’re all good on that. There are a few people that we know in real life and others that we don’t that can benefit from what we are doing. This thread is for them.
Although as things go. I have mentioned this before. I “coach” a small group of Teens with Asperger Syndrome. I use this thread a LOT to show them and illustrate how society reacts to any type of behaviour outside what is considered normal. You guys are doing an EXCELENT job at illustrating just that. For that I thank you.

As to what we are doing, I will keep on posting as usual, Illustrating our failings and successes. But as we now enter a new phase in the build I am not going to be able to respond to all, I will post our updates and answer specific questions about the things we are going to do and some of the materials were going to be working with. And questions will come.

For the questions You can leave a comment on the video tutorial I will make for the material. Or technique.

Now the FUN begins.

In the next 2 weeks I will be making some intricate parts for Oddity.

The First material I’m going to use in Creating what will be Oddity is going to be Non Filled pattern wax (Colour: Blue) Bar or Pearl Form I prefer bar as I cut and carve. But also use pearl for larger flat or curved surfaces. (non textured)
For Textured surfaces or shapes I use a different wax, Filled pattern wax (Colour: Green)
Mostly used for the creation of Aerospace parts.

Everyone should have a Kg laying around, a pair of Lady nylon Stockings and some lighter Fluid. This should always be together. (no, it’s no joke, if you want to copy some of the techniques you will need the Lady Stockings and lighter Fluid. ) You should also have a container with lid to prevent contamination while stored.
This will also be the base that will allow the creation of specific prototypes and moulds for some areas and parts of the interior and even on the outside. Intricate forms and delicate shapes can be created manually, or by CNC carving. In this case I am going to create the new shape for the Cockpit door to start with. Followed by the Heads and parts of the galley and detailing. The Deck will also be finished using the wax for the anti-grip patterns. There will be a small video tutorial showing or trying to show how it’s used. (never said I was a good teacher so bear with me)
It is not a cheap material, But with care, it lasts a long time and I have batches over 15 years old that I still use for intricate castings. (Cold casting)
For the door I am going to use around -+ 5kg, and this will be enough to use for all the parts I will need to design and create for the interior and exterior of Oddity.

There you go, First “magical “ material.

On the Lady stockings, I go for cheap and smooth with as closed a mesh as possible. I use some coarser ones as to start the finishing process and move to a smoother finish with the tight mesh.

Did I hear magical?

I will try and explain as best I can how to use it but hey “It’s a Kind of Magic”

Greg.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Guys, a quick Word.

I don’t mind, trying to explain our ideas to you guys. But just in case you have not noticed, there are quite a few people that enjoy coming here and read the thread either for fun or because they like what we are doing.

Then there are the "others"
From the start, some have been very dismissive, others very supportive.

There are a few types of people on this world, the Dismissive ones that say a lot and achieve nothing tangible except stroke their own ego. The Hypocritical ones always looking for a flaw as a way to justify perhaps their own shortcomings. And the ones that come here to really trade Ideas and do something they like with like minded people.

Anything said that is not the accepted way of doing things gets normally shot down in flames and many a poster just gives up.

Me and Phil are on a long trip. We’re making a boat that we intend to sail if possible around our beautiful Oceans. We don’t need your approval or judgement. Or even care either way. Some of the things we intend are indeed considered outside the envelope. But we have fun doing them and building stuff. And trying stuff. Some works some does not. For us it’s a work of love. We don’t need saving. We’re all good on that. There are a few people that we know in real life and others that we don’t that can benefit from what we are doing. This thread is for them.
Although as things go. I have mentioned this before. I “coach” a small group of Teens with Asperger Syndrome. I use this thread a LOT to show them and illustrate how society reacts to any type of behaviour outside what is considered normal. You guys are doing an EXCELENT job at illustrating just that. For that I thank you.

As to what we are doing, I will keep on posting as usual, Illustrating our failings and successes. But as we now enter a new phase in the build I am not going to be able to respond to all, I will post our updates and answer specific questions about the things we are going to do and some of the materials were going to be working with. And questions will come.

For the questions You can leave a comment on the video tutorial I will make for the material. Or technique.

Now the FUN begins.

In the next 2 weeks I will be making some intricate parts for Oddity.

The First material I’m going to use in Creating what will be Oddity is going to be Non Filled pattern wax (Colour: Blue) Bar or Pearl Form I prefer bar as I cut and carve. But also use pearl for larger flat or curved surfaces. (non textured)
For Textured surfaces or shapes I use a different wax, Filled pattern wax (Colour: Green)
Mostly used for the creation of Aerospace parts.

Everyone should have a Kg laying around, a pair of Lady nylon Stockings and some lighter Fluid. This should always be together. (no, it’s no joke, if you want to copy some of the techniques you will need the Lady Stockings and lighter Fluid. ) You should also have a container with lid to prevent contamination while stored.
This will also be the base that will allow the creation of specific prototypes and moulds for some areas and parts of the interior and even on the outside. Intricate forms and delicate shapes can be created manually, or by CNC carving. In this case I am going to create the new shape for the Cockpit door to start with. Followed by the Heads and parts of the galley and detailing. The Deck will also be finished using the wax for the anti-grip patterns. There will be a small video tutorial showing or trying to show how it’s used. (never said I was a good teacher so bear with me)
It is not a cheap material, But with care, it lasts a long time and I have batches over 15 years old that I still use for intricate castings. (Cold casting)
For the door I am going to use around -+ 5kg, and this will be enough to use for all the parts I will need to design and create for the interior and exterior of Oddity.

There you go, First “magical “ material.

On the Lady stockings, I go for cheap and smooth with as closed a mesh as possible. I use some coarser ones as to start the finishing process and move to a smoother finish with the tight mesh.

Did I hear magical?

I will try and explain as best I can how to use it but hey “It’s a Kind of Magic”

Greg.

I take you back to your first post and indeed the title or part of it, "looking for infos" which most people would regard as information and comment on what and how you are doing things.
You started off with what a lot thought to be an overambitious timescale and budget for a perfectly doable project albeit one that not many would contemplate. All that is OK we all tend to bite off a little more than we can chew and make promises that stretch the bounds of credibility at times. However the project seems to have morphed into an amalgam of things you have read about or seen on You Tube which in reality have no place on a 33 foot boat be it a costal cruiser or a boat that will tackle long unsupported voyages both of which a well fettled "normal CC33 will be capable of. That is why you get criticised and people tend ton scoff at your ideas.
Personally I doubt the boat will be anywhere near ready this time next year and if you continue with some of your propositions will become a floating Steptoes yard and unlikely to move out of coastal waters if it ever launches.
Sorry but I am a realist that has maintained a boat and sailed it.

 

[lpdsn]

Everyone should have a Kg laying around, a pair of Lady nylon Stockings and some lighter Fluid.

And a decent lawyer on retainer just in case the boys in blue try to build a prosecution around them.

 

[GregOddity]

And a decent lawyer on retainer just in case the boys in blue try to build a prosecution around them.

You should see the face of my accountant when I told him "tool" for VAT.

 

[steveeasy]

This is a grossly unfair statement!

I’m of an age to have very fond memories of MPFC. It was contemporary and funny.

This 2018 contemporary thread is more Keith Lemon. Not funny. It stretched the limits of credibility a very long time ago but I remain impressed by the tenacity of the several level headed posters who are, sadly, feeding the troll.

Perpetual motion drive with autonomous bow and stern thruster collision avoidance systems. You simply couldn’t make this up, could you? I’m convinced that Greg is a pseudonym for undergraduate ghost writers studying for a degree at the Royal Academy of Performing Arts.

Respectfully, the use of the word troll is bloody offensive in this case. I shudder each time the word is used. Does it really matter what Greg and Phil plan to do, how they spend their money and time, and how many boats they have. They are at least having some fun and good for them.

Steveeasy