Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[pvb]

Currently I am nearing completion of a renovation of a Westerly Fulmar. When I bought it, she was very tired and needed some replacing and updating. There is a thread on the Westerly Owners Forum about it, https://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/woaforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748 and photographs are here, http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/ConcertoFulmar32/library/?sort=3&page=8 starting at what she looked like when I bought her. No where near as much of a project as Oddity but so far I have spent about £23,000 on top of the purchase price with about another £3,000 to complete, but I had only expected to spend £12,000. In my defense I have done a lot of improvements that are quite expensive, but virtually everything was bought new.

No idea what you paid for it, but what's a tip-top Fulmar selling for today? £18-20K?

 

[ghostlymoron]

I guess that Greg knows by now that he is unlikely to show a profit on this venture but he is determined to do it anyway. Good for him. From his recent posts, it sounds like he intends to use a chainsaw - that should be interesting.
The hybrid drive idea was tried by Nigel Calder, I think the verdict was "not viable at present".

 

[Tranona]

It will not be many years, I think you’re going to be surprised at how I’m going to do it. Some of the tools I will be using may surprise you, how I will carry out some of the refit will surprise you even more.
I will try and get some of that on video, with a disclaimer, some of the tools I will be using require prior understanding and learning or it may end in personal injury or a botched job.

Would love to know what these magic tools are that are going to allow you to do what nobody else has ever done!

I mentioned earlier that my estimate would be 2000 man hours to complete that boat. That is based on a well organised yard that had built the boat before and had all the drawings, jigs and templates to minimise the amount of wasted effort. Typically even then about a third of those hours are spent collecting materials, walking up and down ladders, struggling to get components into the boat though the hatch etc. You have none of the advantages of an experienced set of shipwrights and your proportion of time spent on the non productive tasks will probably be twice that of the yard. Overall I would be surprised if you spend less than 4000 hours in total in your fitout. That is 2 years working a normal full time week. Difficult to imagine any "tools" that will reduce that significantly.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Would love to know what these magic tools are that are going to allow you to do what nobody else has ever done!

Panel saw and a claw hammer.

 

[GregOddity]

I guess that Greg knows by now that he is unlikely to show a profit on this venture but he is determined to do it anyway. Good for him. From his recent posts, it sounds like he intends to use a chainsaw - that should be interesting.
The hybrid drive idea was tried by Nigel Calder, I think the verdict was "not viable at present".

I’m actually forbidden to use a chainsaw. My wife says I look way too crazy to work with one.
What Nigel Calder thinks, is very good for HIM. I’m actually capable of making my mind up on tech issues by myself believe it or not.

On that note the President of the academy of sciences in Paris got up from the audience and throttled a poor Edison technician demonstrating the first Phonograph using a wax cylinder and shouted “go on let the machine now talk without the ventriloquist “

 

[GregOddity]

Panel saw and a claw hammer.

waidaminute, thats not fair, my claw hammer has a magnet for the nails.

 

[Concerto]

No idea what you paid for it, but what's a tip-top Fulmar selling for today? £18-20K?

If you want one that is tired then £18-£22K will get one with an old engine, old sails, old standing and running rigging, chipped and flaking deck paint, original lifelines, original winches, tired canvas work, original cooker, original upholstery, drooping headlining, etc.

One in tip top condition will make £30K+. Even though my boat is not quite finished I have had in double digits people wanting to buy it as they know how good it is. However I did it for my self and plan to keep her for another 10 years or more. Then the benefit of all the work will have been for my benefit, but will still remain well maintained above other examples. Although many people like modern boats, there are still plenty of people who like older classics like the Twister, CO32, Nicholson 35, etc. The Fulmar is still highly rated as being a fantastic boat to sail and I wholeheartedly agree and know many owners who have owned them from new and would never consider changing. Next year the Fulmar will qualify to attend Oostende Voor Anker as the design and first launch was 40 years ago. I wonder how many modern designs will still be loved as much after 40 years?

 

[GregOddity]

Greg

Having read and watched your videos, I wish you the best of luck to finish this project. I feel you have the skills and knowledge to do it, however I doubt if you will stay within budget.

The redesigned interior should try to make Oddity more modern in feel, but try thinking of what a secondhand customer would want. This also applies to your engine, an electric motor may sound good today but may not be suitable for a gentleman used to motoring to windward rather than beating.

In the past I helped my parents fit out a 34ft hull and deck, and later build a couple of 30ft yachts in fiberglass from plans. The first 30 footer took us just 8 months (expected 6 months) from start to launch with up to 5 people working at weekends and several during the week and evenings. So your completion target is tight but not impossible.

You should definitely try and find somewhere closer to home and cheaper to store Oddity whilst working on her. You will save storage fees and have less travel time, both will help.

Currently I am nearing completion of a renovation of a Westerly Fulmar. When I bought it, she was very tired and needed some replacing and updating. There is a thread on the Westerly Owners Forum about it, https://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/woaforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2748 and photographs are here, http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/ConcertoFulmar32/library/?sort=3&page=8 starting at what she looked like when I bought her. No where near as much of a project as Oddity but so far I have spent about £23,000 on top of the purchase price with about another £3,000 to complete, but I had only expected to spend £12,000. In my defense I have done a lot of improvements that are quite expensive, but virtually everything was bought new.

A useful source for secondhand parts can be eBay, but also look at http://www.justboatstuf.com/. This is run by a guy who works on a lot of boats and he sells off items the owners have upgraded.

Looking forward to see how work progresses over the coming months.

You been doing great stuff, just had a look at some of the pics you have. I can tell you have done more then one just by looking at the "water weights " you use I'dd love to see it.

 

[GregOddity]

If you want one that is tired then £18-£22K will get one with an old engine, old sails, old standing and running rigging, chipped and flaking deck paint, original lifelines, original winches, tired canvas work, original cooker, original upholstery, drooping headlining, etc.

One in tip top condition will make £30K+. Even though my boat is not quite finished I have had in double digits people wanting to buy it as they know how good it is. However I did it for my self and plan to keep her for another 10 years or more. Then the benefit of all the work will have been for my benefit, but will still remain well maintained above other examples. Although many people like modern boats, there are still plenty of people who like older classics like the Twister, CO32, Nicholson 35, etc. The Fulmar is still highly rated as being a fantastic boat to sail and I wholeheartedly agree and know many owners who have owned them from new and would never consider changing. Next year the Fulmar will qualify to attend Oostende Voor Anker as the design and first launch was 40 years ago. I wonder how many modern designs will still be loved as much after 40 years?

what can I add except HEAR HEAR. All the work I’m doing is for our own enjoyment, and how well I will finish her it’s not for profit but for our own comfort. She will be pretty tame, not given to sudden tantrums like some more modern designs, I I fully intend to sail her across the Atlantic so she can show us what a Lady she is.

 

[Spyro]

If you want one that is tired then £18-£22K will get one with an old engine, old sails, old standing and running rigging, chipped and flaking deck paint, original lifelines, original winches, tired canvas work, original cooker, original upholstery, drooping headlining, etc.

One in tip top condition will make £30K+. Even though my boat is not quite finished I have had in double digits people wanting to buy it as they know how good it is. However I did it for my self and plan to keep her for another 10 years or more. Then the benefit of all the work will have been for my benefit, but will still remain well maintained above other examples. Although many people like modern boats, there are still plenty of people who like older classics like the Twister, CO32, Nicholson 35, etc. The Fulmar is still highly rated as being a fantastic boat to sail and I wholeheartedly agree and know many owners who have owned them from new and would never consider changing. Next year the Fulmar will qualify to attend Oostende Voor Anker as the design and first launch was 40 years ago. I wonder how many modern designs will still be loved as much after 40 years?

Yes they are much loved but perhaps by the same people who bought them 40 years ago. Yachtworld would suggest you are a bit off with your prices.

 

[Tranona]

What Nigel Calder thinks, is very good for HIM. I’m actually capable of making my mind up on tech issues by myself believe it or not.

Have you actually read the write up of Calder's EU funded project?

If not then I suggest you do before you start dissing it.

 

[Iain C]

Sorry, I'm another one who thinks you're absolutely off your rocker. If you want a project boat there's plenty of unloved stuff festering in the corners of boatyards going for stupidly small amounts of cash where at least everything is there, and complete...you're just varnishing bulkheads, not removing them and starting again! I appreciate you have all these skills, but just make a rudimentary list of all the deck gear you need to go sailing...forget the interior for now...work out the stuff you can't fabricate, then go look at some prices, even second hand. 20k? You're missing a zero there fella.

I could almost understand it if the boat was some important neglected racer with a string of titles to her name, or some bite the back of your hand beautiful old woodie with a shape to die for, or even a class that has some desirability like a CO32. No offence to the Countess, I'm sure she's a great, roomy, safe design, but hardly up there in the desirability stakes...and why would you not just go and buy that very nice example already posted and go sailing now? Have you even thought about if you'll be able to get her signed off by a surveyor and therefore insured?

To add a bit of balance to the post (and I still think you're barking) and if you really must burn your time and money in this way, go and find something of a similar size, festering in the corner of a boatyard for £5k that will at least donate a rig, engine, electronics, etc etc etc. Take every last thing off it, chainsaw the hull into a skip and weigh the keel in for scrap. Do not fanny around with the interior on your boat, get it structurally sound and concentrate entirely on the stuff that makes it float and go before you totally lose interest. View it as a GRP tent for camping in.

I looked at a similar "project" years ago when I was desperate for my first yacht, a Jaguar 21 that had had a small encounter with the bottom. By the time I priced up even basic rudimentary items, it was clear it was a total non-starter as I could just go and buy one ready to go.

Seriously...this is the PBO forum...people here LOVE a good project and are usually totally supportive. But this, this is not a good project..

Either way...genuinely...best of luck and enjoy yourself!

 

[GregOddity]

Sorry, I'm another one who thinks you're absolutely off your rocker. If you want a project boat there's plenty of unloved stuff festering in the corners of boatyards going for stupidly small amounts of cash where at least everything is there, and complete...you're just varnishing bulkheads, not removing them and starting again! I appreciate you have all these skills, but just make a rudimentary list of all the deck gear you need to go sailing...forget the interior for now...work out the stuff you can't fabricate, then go look at some prices, even second hand. 20k? You're missing a zero there fella.

I could almost understand it if the boat was some important neglected racer with a string of titles to her name, or some bite the back of your hand beautiful old woodie with a shape to die for, or even a class that has some desirability like a CO32. No offence to the Countess, I'm sure she's a great, roomy, safe design, but hardly up there in the desirability stakes...and why would you not just go and buy that very nice example already posted and go sailing now? Have you even thought about if you'll be able to get her signed off by a surveyor and therefore insured?

To add a bit of balance to the post (and I still think you're barking) and if you really must burn your time and money in this way, go and find something of a similar size, festering in the corner of a boatyard for £5k that will at least donate a rig, engine, electronics, etc etc etc. Take every last thing off it, chainsaw the hull into a skip and weigh the keel in for scrap. Do not fanny around with the interior on your boat, get it structurally sound and concentrate entirely on the stuff that makes it float and go before you totally lose interest. View it as a GRP tent for camping in.

I looked at a similar "project" years ago when I was desperate for my first yacht, a Jaguar 21 that had had a small encounter with the bottom. By the time I priced up even basic rudimentary items, it was clear it was a total non-starter as I could just go and buy one ready to go.

Seriously...this is the PBO forum...people here LOVE a good project and are usually totally supportive. But this, this is not a good project..

Either way...genuinely...best of luck and enjoy yourself!

My feeling is that you guys are missing the point here. Of course, you all love a good project. Otherwise you would not be here. But here’s the thing, as you very well pointed out most of the boats languishing on boatyards everywhere around the coast have ALL the hardware…that I don’t want. A 20-year-old engine can be used as a good foundation for a concrete block for a mooring. 30-year-old winches will make you very proficient in constant maintenance, (think of field stripping a rifle with closed eyes over and over) the electronics? The electric wiring the bits of soggy plywood, sails that will disintegrate with a seagull sneeze when flying past. The list goes on.
I would STRIP the all thing bare and start new. You forget there are 3 types of sailors. The Club Admiral, the Expert on expertise, the weekend sailor that uses is boat as a caravan in the water, and Blue water sailors.
I consider my self the later. I’m actually going to sail that boat to start across the Atlantic. Do you honestly think I want 30-year-old wiring or winches mast and everything you can find on a boat for 5k?
If I fell into the category of the weekend sailor and used the boat to sail around the coast? Sure, why not. But trust me on this one, you do NOT want to be repairing your old wires half way across the Atlantic, neither do you want the 30-year-old sails to turn into deco Banners in the wind.
It is all a matter of perspective. I know plenty of people that bought boats as you say and I cannot fault their judgement, I fail to see how you can fault mine.

 

[Concerto]

Yes they are much loved but perhaps by the same people who bought them 40 years ago. Yachtworld would suggest you are a bit off with your prices.

Who cares what other peoples boats are selling for? I certainly do not. Mine is not for sale.

When I started this project I could have just gone out and bought a brand new 32ft yacht, but I am getting a boat I am very happy with in a condition that others would like to achieve - but for about a third of the cost of a new one. When you factor in 12 years depreciation to the new yacht compared to what my boat has cost me, the sums just make sense as I would have lost more on the new yacht than the whole project cost. Instead I invested the balance in a property that is creating an income and has capital growth. Overall in my situation buying a new boat is a fools choice, been there in the past and had the t-shirts.

 

[dancrane]

Greg and Phil...

Nobody on this forum is a bigger dreamer than me. Everything you're pondering or actually taking on, has crossed and recrossed my mind repeatedly over the years - layout alterations, electric auxiliary, rig choices, renovation and kitting-out from the start.

I've never been dissuaded from the view that all my (sometimes eccentric) concepts justify serious consideration. But watching your video, I know it's damned lucky I've never had a large vessel on which to try them out.

I was not keen to join those who are advising you to stop...but please, take a long hour and think hard. It really isn't too late to drop it, and cut to zero the enormous time, unquantifiable effort and horrific expenditure that lie ahead of you.

Do you really want to spend years of your lives, making a boat, rather than sailing one of the excellent finished examples?

 

[simonfraser]

this thread has to be a Troll.

 

[Spyro]

this thread has to be a Troll.

I don't think so, I've seen the videos.

 

[pvb]

this thread has to be a Troll.

See post 143.

 

[Tam Lin]

this thread has to be a Troll.

I was beginning to think that it was a wind up, apparently I’m not the only one! Time to move on I think.

 

[dom]

I was beginning to think that it was a wind up, apparently I’m not the only one! Time to move on I think.

I see Mr Oddity’s cleverly developing persona and storyline now has him looking to the Atlantic ...and beyond.

And with that another Buzz Lightyear thread is born. Full marks though!