Boat Brokers the Good The Bad and The Ugly

[sailaboutvic]

Bought our boat through Clarke and Carter Kent, first class service.

Have to say , we sold a boat through them must be 18 years ago tho there Suffolk office , and agree they where good then .

 

[Irish Rover]

I bought my boat through Williams & Smithells in Lefkas last autumn and it was anything but a satisfactory experience. I only got things sorted by making a complaint to the ABYA. If I was asked to describe the company in one word it would be incompetent.

 

[JFowler]

As with most things in life it’s all about the people!
Decide if the people you’re dealing with are competent/ trustworthy and if not walk away - there are many in both categories.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Well, I bought Capricious through Peters Opal - about a year before they went bust! And despite the subsequent horror stories, I had nothing but a good experience with them. Of course, I was dealing with the branch office on the Clyde, where everyone in the office was well known around the marina. And I did follow the advice to make my offer "subject to survey". They were happy to adjust the process to fit my slightly peculiar financial situation, and everything went smoothly. Of course, Moody 31s are a well known and respected make, so I knew I was looking at a fundamentally sound boat, but even so, the survey uncovered a couple of things that needed rectification - the price was adjusted accordingly. Given subsequent history, I think I would be a bit more cautious and ask more questions about payment, but all went smoothly as it was.

 

[jac]

BOught and sold through Sea Ventures and through Jonic of this Parish. In both cases - buying through them first and being impressed enough to place the boat back with them to resell.

Nothing that amazing that they do, just do the basics well. E.g. answer the phone, describe the boat fairly / have good website, be available to show you the boat, be vaguely knowledgeable about it, respond quickly to queries and link in with the other party during the transaction, helping to facilitate the sales process / remediation of the inevitable issues uncovered by the survey.

Our search for a replacement has revealed a lot of the bad.
Top three for me:
NO or slow responses,
Boats in poor condition but not made clear on the particulars.
Basic information hidden away / only available by registering on their website. ( Boatshed i'm looking at you!!!)

Then there are issues that are probably down to the owners - such as unrealistic prices on boats that have been for sale for a year!

 

[Sailorsam101]

Bought my current boat from Ancaster in falmouth...it went perfect and i can't fault them.

I have seen the aftermath of a broker..no names here...who did not put incoming money into secure accounts...they basically were taking money form the sale of one boat to pay the owner of a previous sale...it got very messy and ended up in court. i was in the brokers office when one angry customer who had been done out of 5 figures came in and smashed the place up.

 

[JimC]

I bought my present boat through Ancaster at Mercury Yacht Harbour nine years ago. The chap in charge there then was called Alex. There were a few problems with the boat not picked up on the survey, and also some improvements and additions we wanted to make before sailing the boat up to Lancashire. We ended up staying at Mercury for several weeks after the sale was completed to attend to all this. During this period Alex helped a lot, putting us in touch with local tradesmen, mechanics, riggers etc whom he knew would do a good job without ripping us off, and advising us generally. When we finally left he waved us off from the quayside and when we got home we sent him a picture postcard of Glasson Dock with our thanks.

 

[pessimist]

Recently looked at a boat through Boatshed Brighton. She wasn't for us but Tim the broker could not have been more helpful.

 

[eddystone]

Have to say , we sold a boat through them must be 18 years ago tho there Suffolk office , and agree they where good then .

But not always reliable. I made a fruitless 300 mile round trip to Burnham one Sunday some years ago when C@C failed to leave keys with harbourmaster as promised

 

[Blue Sunray]

Brokers are the estate agents of the sea.

True, and the issue with that is?

 

[andrewbarker]

Hello The Saintly One,
I recently used Boatshed Suffolk and did so to afford me some support, advice or protection, as i live abroad and was buying the boat for my son's 21st Birthday.
So it was advertised as mechanically sound, well maintained and serviced. I got confirmation from Phil at Boatshed Suffolk that this was indeed the case, and went ahead with the purchase. It did say that it needed cosmetic work, what was fine, as long as the expensive stuff was in good order.
The previous owner failed to turn up twice for the handover and then sent the keys to my son, who went over to collect it. However the cunning previous owner did not send the keys to start then engines, until after Boatshed transferred the boat into our name.
Some time after this, Boatshed got it towed to a marina and the guy that towed it their, just dumped it outside the marina with the keys in it.
It was only at this point that i spoke to Mailk Marine, who did a review of it that i found out one of the engines is broken, the drive is broken, it needs new injectors, the engine mounts are broken, it has diesel leaks and broken wiring. This is not the end of the list, but more like the start.
I went back to Boatshed and Phil immediately went legal and refused to speak to us anymore.
So its now with both lawyers and the trading standards office, as to say the boat is not as advertised is a significant understatement.
Feeling less than impressed by Boatshed.

I must say, I'm astonished at what brokers think is acceptable practice for buying a boat in the 21st century. I saw a Fairline advertised by Boatshed France. It was of an age where the engines and outdrives constitute around 60-70% of the value. I went over to have a look at the boat and was told that on no account would the keys be provided, engines started or even any superficial examination of the outdrives be permitted until I coughed up 10% and made a contractual offer. Without any examination of the most significant part of the boat's value, I told them I had nothing like enough information on which to base an offer. They wouldn't budge, so I walked. Goodbye Boatshed from me.

 

[nauticalnomad]

"Moreover, it was my son's 21st Birthday present and it is he, that is suffering more than anyone."
Look at it this way... By the time he is 23 he will be a wizz at fixing boat engines and it will educate him on the life of a boat owner. I dont see anything wrong with this.. You should of got a survey and i guess now you live and learn.

 

[nauticalnomad]

There is also bad boat sellers. I have a guy wanting to buy one of our boats from a brokerage i part own and he wont even let us inside the boat to take photos of the interior. Then after agreeing to list the boat wont even entertain offers or reply to emails put forth by prospective buyers and is in the process of wanting to raise the listing price by 10K. He is wasting our time yet persisted and rushed us to list him on the website as the season was nearing the end. Some boatowners are also not serious about selling their boats.

 

[GB1307]

It has kind of amused me that my tale of woe about Boatshed and brokers in general, has created such a reaction, both positive and negative.

I thank all of those who have given good advice and even those who have given feedback that is a critique of my actions on buying the boat, yet still positive and well intentioned.

Those who in some augmented reality think that its ok for a broker to advertise a boat as mechanically sound and well serviced and maintained, yet its actually got a broken engine, broken drive and not been serviced for years. To those people i really feel sorry for, as its you people who are perpetuating the problem within the industry.

I have never bought a boat before and never owned a boat, i needed to rely on someone for advice and support. I chose to rely on Boatshed, which was my failing and it was a very poor decision. However what has shocked me over the past few days of this thread running, is that nobody is really surprised and everybody knows about the small print that seems to be a legal opt out, in flagrant disregard of trading standards or sale of goods act. What everyone seems to be saying is that this happens all of the time and nobody is doing anything about it. That in itself is worrying and something that i feel honour bound to do something about.

Once again thank you all for your feedback, its been educational.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It has kind of amused me that my tale of woe about Boatshed and brokers in general, has created such a reaction, both positive and negative.

I thank all of those who have given good advice and even those who have given feedback that is a critique of my actions on buying the boat, yet still positive and well intentioned.

Those who in some augmented reality think that its ok for a broker to advertise a boat as mechanically sound and well serviced and maintained, yet its actually got a broken engine, broken drive and not been serviced for years. To those people i really feel sorry for, as its you people who are perpetuating the problem within the industry.

I have never bought a boat before and never owned a boat, i needed to rely on someone for advice and support. I chose to rely on Boatshed, which was my failing and it was a very poor decision. However what has shocked me over the past few days of this thread running, is that nobody is really surprised and everybody knows about the small print that seems to be a legal opt out, in flagrant disregard of trading standards or sale of goods act. What everyone seems to be saying is that this happens all of the time and nobody is doing anything about it. That in itself is worrying and something that i feel honour bound to do something about.

Once again thank you all for your feedback, its been educational.

Brokers are, in the marine field at least, mainly agents for the seller, acting on the seller's behalf - and paid by the seller. The only common case where this isn't the case is in some sales of new boats, where the broker may be the seller - but even for new boats, this isn't usual. The sale is legally a private sale in 99% of cases, and so not subject to many of the provisions of the Sale of Goods Act as you are buying from a private individual. Of course, if the SELLER knowingly makes false statements, then you have recourse against the seller - NOT the broker, who is probably merely passing on information from the seller. There is no onus on a broker to verify the sellers statements, though the better ones do!

In the situation you describe, you may well have a case - but the defendant would be the seller, not the broker, unless the broker was REALLY stupid and made false claims that weren't attributable to the seller.

 

[jac]

It has kind of amused me that my tale of woe about Boatshed and brokers in general, has created such a reaction, both positive and negative.

I thank all of those who have given good advice and even those who have given feedback that is a critique of my actions on buying the boat, yet still positive and well intentioned.

Those who in some augmented reality think that its ok for a broker to advertise a boat as mechanically sound and well serviced and maintained, yet its actually got a broken engine, broken drive and not been serviced for years. To those people i really feel sorry for, as its you people who are perpetuating the problem within the industry.

I have never bought a boat before and never owned a boat, i needed to rely on someone for advice and support. I chose to rely on Boatshed, which was my failing and it was a very poor decision. However what has shocked me over the past few days of this thread running, is that nobody is really surprised and everybody knows about the small print that seems to be a legal opt out, in flagrant disregard of trading standards or sale of goods act. What everyone seems to be saying is that this happens all of the time and nobody is doing anything about it. That in itself is worrying and something that i feel honour bound to do something about.

Once again thank you all for your feedback, its been educational.

Caveat Emptor as the wise man said.

Brokers work for the seller, not you. The surveyor works for you. You chose not to have one.

As to the rubbish about sale of goods act or trading standards - good luck with that. They are not selling anything. They are advertising boats that owners want to sell. As an adjunct to that they will help the sale go through. And those Acts don't apply to private sellers.

As for taking their advice, you obviously didn't, They told you several times to engage a surveyor. Even if they didn't, what kind of person buys something that they know nothing about without bringing along a trusted and knowledgeable person.

Nothing needs to be done about it as the system works ok. If people won't take the advice that is freely offered in multiple places then what can you reasonably expect someone to do.

I'm sorry that you bought a duff boat. If you have no experience with boats then you may not realise that they go wrong all the time., It's a harsh environment. Even well loved and maintained boats seem to develop faults as if by magic whilst not in commission. SO one laid up ashore on a brokers pontoon for a year may be in a totally different condition to how it was originally and no-one may really know until it is put through the test of a sea trial and surveyors inspection. Even if the broker did those when taking on the boat then how do you know that a years worth of corrosion hasn't eaten through the exhaust elbow or a hose has split in the cold or a sheave has seized up let alone the usual stuff like flat batteries or mould.

The point is that boats deteriorate all the time so that some sort of inspection by the broker to say it was ok is only good at that point of time and should be followed by a survey on purchase.

 

[thesaintlyone]

How does that happen
????

 

[thesaintlyone]

Bought my current boat from Ancaster in falmouth...it went perfect and i can't fault them.

I have seen the aftermath of a broker..no names here...who did not put incoming money into secure accounts...they basically were taking money form the sale of one boat to pay the owner of a previous sale...it got very messy and ended up in court. i was in the brokers office when one angry customer who had been done out of 5 figures came in and smashed the place up.

How does that happen????

 

[thesaintlyone]

It has kind of amused me that my tale of woe about Boatshed and brokers in general, has created such a reaction, both positive and negative.

I thank all of those who have given good advice and even those who have given feedback that is a critique of my actions on buying the boat, yet still positive and well intentioned.

Those who in some augmented reality think that its ok for a broker to advertise a boat as mechanically sound and well serviced and maintained, yet its actually got a broken engine, broken drive and not been serviced for years. To those people i really feel sorry for, as its you people who are perpetuating the problem within the industry.

I have never bought a boat before and never owned a boat, i needed to rely on someone for advice and support. I chose to rely on Boatshed, which was my failing and it was a very poor decision. However what has shocked me over the past few days of this thread running, is that nobody is really surprised and everybody knows about the small print that seems to be a legal opt out, in flagrant disregard of trading standards or sale of goods act. What everyone seems to be saying is that this happens all of the time and nobody is doing anything about it. That in itself is worrying and something that i feel honour bound to do something about.

Once again thank you all for your feedback, its been educational.

This story has helped a lot whilst I know a fair bit about boats it's these kinds of stories that guide the kind of positive service I seek boat owners come in all forms and varying levels of knowledge a good broker should be able to provide a service to all

 

[Tranona]

Once again thank you all for your feedback, its been educational.

I hope that the lessons you have learned include reading the material that is available. You seem to have constructed your own view as to the role of the broker which is at odds with what it actually is and then criticise him for not acting to your preconceived idea.

All his paperwork will tell you he is acting for the seller and the particulars he provides are also provided by the seller and that it is up to the buyer to satisfy himself that the claims are correct.

Of course good brokers make checks as to the veracity of the claims made by the seller and that the seller has title to sell. If the seller is making claims about regular servicing then it is sensible to ask for documentary proof before making an offer.

However, dare I say it, your key mistake was not employing a surveyor, particularly as you say you know nothing about boats. Your surveyor is liable to you and if he had found the faults as is most likely with an inspection and sea trial you would have had the opportunity to renegotiate the price to reflect the repairs required or even reject the boat and get your deposit back.

It is not the system that has failed it is your failure to follow it.