BMC 1.5 starting issues - urgent!

[NormanB]

That pdf does give me some ideas though, thanks Norman. Though I can't rule out small leaks elsewhere, the fuel flow is good all the way to the injector, so I need to focus on that. Unless I'm told otherwise, I'm fairly sure I need a torque wrench before I can start looking at the injectors themselves and glow plugs, and more than likely that job will require new gaskets too, so I'm trying what I can for now.

I would hold off taking out injectors just yet, as long as you are getting good flow which you can observe by backing off on the fuel union at the injector itself. I think the fact that you had an air locked injection pump would have ensured there was a no fuel situation at the injector(s).
Can you not get hold of another battery and a portable generator?
Double up on the engine start battery and give them a good charge up, cranking the donk sucks the life out of the battery fast.

 

[NormanB]

And thanks kingfisher, that is the injector I have. The previous owners used your service, but my hope is that I wont need to. I have looked at your website before, it will take 2 months of eating nothing but porridge until I can consider that expense.

Thanks Kingfisher? What are you on about?...?
I just posted their details as an example.:encouragement:

 

[Captn Black]

Cool, that's good news. I have 300ah of house batteries, but they have little juice as the panel spends most of it's time connected to the starter battery. I have a friend in the nearby fishing marina, but the logistics of that barely make it worth the effort, if there's sun. However, this week we have a lot of cloud forecast, so it may be worth dismantling quaterberth and rowing the battery over there. Though with volcanoes, trade winds and acceleration zones, the forecast is an educated guess here at best

 

[ghostlymoron]

I always reckon that you need 2ah in to replace 1 ah out. Incidentally, its high cca capacity that you need to start an engine not ahr capacity.

Hey K-ron, yea, I know this from experience. I've done the maths, a full day of sun, (with my homemade tilting system) is enough. Though of course I don't let it get below 60% in the first place. Unfortunately I think we're due clouds tomorrow.

 

[<152587>]

Stop right now chasing fuel problems!!
If there is no diesel at all in the system and you spray WD40 in to the intake and the compression is good it will fire !!!!!! It burns the propellant very easily which is why it is good to start a reluctant engine and it also burns the atomised liquid which is WD40, (we think it is white spirit) Believe it or not, If you spray it in to the intake, you could run the engine without fuel as long as you kept spraying! So if it wont even fire on WD40 then you have mechanical issues, ie low compression, that need sorting before you address the issue of low main diesel flow.
Stu

You can lead a horse to water etc. We are wasting our time against these fuel experts.

 

[vyv_cox]

You can lead a horse to water etc. We are wasting our time against these fuel experts.

Normally I would agree, but there seems to be some doubt in the OP's mind about his WD40. My experience is that spraying Easi-start into the inlet manifold has not been a 100% solution, so there remains some room for confusion.

 

[<152587>]

Normally I would agree, but there seems to be some doubt in the OP's mind about his WD40. My experience is that spraying Easi-start into the inlet manifold has not been a 100% solution, so there remains some room for confusion.

These engines are notorious for start probs. They are difficult to get sufficient cranking speed to provide sufficient heat to ignite the fuel, that linked with indirect injection dictates the need for heat plugs, unfortunately they have a reputation for clogging up the heater orifices into the ricardo chamber with carbon rendering the glow plugs ineffective. As skipper stu states there are more issues here than fuel.

 

[mjf107]

Captn Black

Re post #42 introducing oil into Cylinders-testing compression

I can understand your reluctance to remove glow plugs or injectors. Perhaps it was a bit obscure but it will help to kick start an engine with low compression, especially if caused by sticking rings worn bores etc, but not if the loss of compression is due to blown head casket or valves or valve gear problems. As others have said it should fire up even if you have other fuel issues, one thing you must be aware of if you over do the oil or other fuels the engine can run away it will rev up uncontrolled until the fuel you've introduced runs out or worst still in can start consuming its own engine oil..... Very scary... The only way to stop it from self destruction is to cut off its air supply... Have a pice of wood to hand that's easy hold over the air intake.. Don't be tempted to use your hand. For your own safety you need a competent assistant in these matters.... Working with revolving machinery in confidence spaces risk of fire etc

 

[PCUK]

Expect the heater plugs to break off if you remove them. Then it's a head off job to remove the broken bits. Or as I did fit a Thermostart which works better than the heater plugs.

 

[jneale]

My 1.5 bmc was always a bugger to start. after about 8 years I found that the timing was retarded by about 5 degrees. Just advanced it a smidge on the injector pump and all ok afterwards

 

[Captn Black]

Hey guys, I realise that the fuel issue seemed lower priority, but as said, the output of the wd40 can was questionable. If you're going to make patronising comments fron the safety of your computer, atand least try to look at the thread toI discover the reasons I hadn't been following everyones advice at the same time.

Yes, the fact that the battery had high cca I thought had been implied by the fact it is a new marine starter battery?

Anyway, I tried to start it now on a new can of wd40 to no effect.

I can start looking at other issues next, but shouldn't I wait till I can get a torque wrench? The manual is quite insistent?

 

[RichardS]

Hey guys, I realise that the fuel issue seemed lower priority, but as said, the output of the wd40 can was questionable. If you're going to make patronising comments fron the safety of your computer, atand least try to look at the thread toI discover the reasons I hadn't been following everyones advice at the same time.

Yes, the fact that the battery had high cca I thought had been implied by the fact it is a new marine starter battery?

Anyway, I tried to start it now on a new can of wd40 to no effect.

I can start looking at other issues next, but shouldn't I wait till I can get a torque wrench? The manual is quite insistent?

Sorry to labour this ..... but can I just confirm that you are spraying the new can of WD40 directly into the air intake, having removed the air filter, at the same time as the engine is spinning over freely with a charged battery and with the cooling water seacock closed?

And doing the above there has not been a single firing stroke? It's very strange.

I can't remember whether you have decompressors but if you do they are not stuck open are they? It seems unlikely but the engine suddenly loosing compression on all cylinders also seems very unlikely.

If you turn the engine over clockwise with a spanner on the crankshaft nut, can you feel the compression building such that a couple of times each 360 degrees it gets very difficult to actually move the spanner?

Richard

 

[Captn Black]

Philosophically, I believe that if you're going to be disrespectful to someone you should do it to their face. I'm not sure what kind of ego problems results in people who act otherwise, but it is because of them that I avoid forums, social media.
You had a chance to help someone that needed it, and politely asked. And it is a shame that a few fools ruin the tone of the majority of threads here and elsewhere. I Honestly, I can figure it out mysef with the help of other cruisers here, with far less anger, which doesn't help at all.
Thanks to those that were helpful.
Bye.

 

[clyst]

Bleddy 'ell Captn chill ......... Posters are only trying to sort your problem .......you asked they rallied to try get you sorted ......who is being disrespectful " ??? Don't think you will get much help in the future with that attitude .

 

[RichardS]

Philosophically, I believe that if you're going to be disrespectful to someone you should do it to their face. I'm not sure what kind of ego problems results in people who act otherwise, but it is because of them that I avoid forums, social media.
You had a chance to help someone that needed it, and politely asked. And it is a shame that a few fools ruin the tone of the majority of threads here and elsewhere. I Honestly, I can figure it out mysef with the help of other cruisers here, with far less anger, which doesn't help at all.
Thanks to those that were helpful.
Bye.

Errrrr ... was that the Captain's response to my post #72?

I was genuinely trying to help.

Richard

 

[maxi77]

Errrrr ... was that the Captain's response to my post #72?

I was genuinely trying to help.

Richard

I suspect the OP is getting a trifle frazzled as he cannot still get his engine to start and cannot afford to do some of the sensible things suggested. I suspect most of us would take a ratty turn under those circumstances.

 

[A1Sailor]

I know that the OP has cleaned his tank and that others are convinced that this isn't a fuel problem but if he gets a can of clean diesel and a length of rubber hose directly onto the engine, instead of the fuel line, it might just help. Clutching at straws might be more effective, but it once helped me as a "get you home" measure.
My own problem, as I later discovered, was a tank with "sludge" in the bottom due to bug, obstructing the fuel line inside the tank but with nothing sinister appearing in the filter(s) except air - the fuel lift pump was pumping and pumping and pumping to no avail!
In the unlikely event that this does work, remember that an engine draws more diesel than it uses, with up to half ending up (back) in the main tank. My 20 litres of nice clean diesel seemed to be disappearing awfully fast, until I worked out why.

The engine was very much happier once I cleaned/pressure washed the tank and all the fuel lines... Good luck Captn.

 

[Mister E]

In the same situation I would close the gap on number 2 & 3 exhaust valves. I would turn the engine by hand to check that valves do not hit the pistons.
Then I would crack all 4 injector pipes by 1/2 turn.
Iwould then turn the engine over with some sort hot wire so that I can reach the engine at the same time.
With the engine really spinning over and fuel coming out of all the injector pipes. I would tighten no 1 injector pipe.
If it starts to attempt to fire I would then tighten no 4 injector.
If it starts on the 2 cylinders I would then tighten the other 2 injector pipes.
Then with the engine stopped regap the exhaust valves.
All of this with very clean fuel tank or can and new fuel pipe to the lift pump.

If the wd40 can was used upside down you would only release the propellant and very little liquid.

 

[NormanB]

Well we will never find out now!

I feel as though I have wasted my time - teddy is in the corner of the room with his arms and legs firmly ripped off.

 

[Heckler]

In the same situation I would close the gap on number 2 & 3 exhaust valves. I would turn the engine by hand to check that valves do not hit the pistons.
Then I would crack all 4 injector pipes by 1/2 turn.
Iwould then turn the engine over with some sort hot wire so that I can reach the engine at the same time.
With the engine really spinning over and fuel coming out of all the injector pipes. I would tighten no 1 injector pipe.
If it starts to attempt to fire I would then tighten no 4 injector.
If it starts on the 2 cylinders I would then tighten the other 2 injector pipes.
Then with the engine stopped regap the exhaust valves.
All of this with very clean fuel tank or can and new fuel pipe to the lift pump.

If the wd40 can was used upside down you would only release the propellant and very little liquid.

Wd40 consists of several components, either of which an engine will fire on. The propellant is a flammeable gas, I believe it is propane, VicS will tell us which one. This is the component that will fire the easiest. So holding it upside down will put flammeable gas in to the inlet which will make the egine fire, if only for a few strokes. The whole point of my banging on about it is, if it wont fire at all on WD40 then there are other issues than just a fuel bug that need fixing before fixing the bug issues!
Stu