BMC 1.5 starting issues - urgent!

[Captn Black]

Hi shipmates! I'm in the Canaries, and due to various issues I am at a mooring which I must leave in two weeks. There is no way for me to get supplies shipped here in time, and my budget is near zero within this timeframe anyway.

My main issue is that my BMC 1.5 won't start. She ran 10 months ago, but with a low pressure problem, I assumed this was due to a cracked injector pump return line, which I have now replaced.

I have change both fuel filters, cleaned the lift pump, and bled the system multiple times. She now turns over in neutral and in gear via starter motor, but won't start. WD40 in air intake has no effect.

Possible issues include:


The main filter non-return valve spring had disappeared, so I replaced it with a spring from a biro. It is now possible to blow through it at maximum effort in correct direction, and not in the other.

The seal on the lift pump bleed screw is a little worn, but no fuel appears to be leaking.

The high pressure fuel lines are passing fuel, but at the rate of about a drop per 6-10 seconds of cranking - indicative of low pressure? Or is that flow rate correct?

I have not yet been able to afford diesel bug treatment, €50 here, (the problem had been significant) but everything from the fuel tank to main filter has been cleaned, old fuel drained and new added.

Any ideas?

Cheers

 

[A1Sailor]

Bump.

 

[RichardS]

It doesn't sound good I'm afraid.

I assume it's fairly warm in the Canaries so if spraying WD40 directly into the air intake with the filter removed won't even provoke one firing then I think your compression has gone.

See if you can get some proper starter spray from a chandlers, then use a haird dryer to blow hot air directly into the intake along with the spray whilst getting someone to turn over the engine with a charged battery. If you don't get at least one firing stroke then I think you must have a compression problem .... gasket/rings/valves etc.

You might be able to get an engineer to do a compression test quite cheaply.

Richard

 

[Captn Black]

Thanks for the reply. I've been doing further research and it seems that perhaps the gauze in the injector pump is gunked up, which would certainly fit with the diesel bug issue, which was in both filters and lift pump. I'm very cautious of messing with the injector, but may be able to remove the end plate in-situ. Thread from another forum linked below, not the same issue, but symptoms and cause could be similar. Any tips on doing this job?

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86604

 

[NorthUp]

It is a fuel problem, nowhere near enough fuel coming from the injector pipes. Have you bled air from the fuel injection pump? Two small bleed nipples, one on the main body, and one on the casting that holds the throttle and stop lever, (assuming this is a rotary injection pump!) is the stop lever in the run position?

 

[Captn Black]

Even if I could find an engineer that would let me row him and his equipment 800m out into the bay and test my compression for my total budget of €20, I can't help but feel that that money would be better spent on fixing the problem. Are there other ways to troubleshoot the potential issues you mentioned please Richard?

And thanks for reply Northup, my thoughts too. Yes, I have done that many times, but due to diesel bug issue I'm suspecting that the injector pump gause is gunked up. Any tips on fixing that myself please?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks for the reply. I've been doing further research and it seems that perhaps the gauze in the injector pump is gunked up, which would certainly fit with the diesel bug issue, which was in both filters and lift pump. I'm very cautious of messing with the injector, but may be able to remove the end plate in-situ. Thread from another forum linked below, not the same issue, but symptoms and cause could be similar. Any tips on doing this job?

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86604

Sure it's not the gauze in the lift pump ?

There is a manual here (1.8 engine, but basically the same) : http://www.asap-supplies.com/media/faq/132000-bmc-1.8-manual.pdf

 

[Captn Black]

Thanks Paul, that was gunked up too, but is now spotless. I have that manual and the workshop one.

 

[Captn Black]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm new here, so my messages are delayed for the next few hours. I'll check in tomorrow when that delay should be over, to avoid confusion.

 

[Captn Black]

I think we've narrowed down the problem to the injector pump (lift pump was a black tarry mess, but clean now, everything else also cleaned, and yes, cut out is in run position). The workshop service manual does cover the injector pump, but I don't think I have the specialist tools for full service, but the thread I shared suggests that cleaning the gause is possible without full service. Besides, as you're all no doubt aware, there's a big difference between servicing an engine in a workshop compared to doing it aboard a vessel at anchor/mooring. So any advice regarding this would be welcome, thanks.

 

[oldharry]

Thanks for the reply. I've been doing further research and it seems that perhaps the gauze in the injector pump is gunked up, which would certainly fit with the diesel bug issue, which was in both filters and lift pump. I'm very cautious of messing with the injector, but may be able to remove the end plate in-situ. Thread from another forum linked below, not the same issue, but symptoms and cause could be similar. Any tips on doing this job?

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=86604

If bug gunk had reached the low pressure pump then the filter gauze will be blocked. Make sure all the fuel lies are clear too. They're not easy engines to bleed anyway, and even one small bubble in the injection pump will stop it pumping properly.

Open the fuel feed pipe to the injector pump at the pump end, and see if you can pump fuel through by hand. Make sure the pump is not sitting on its cam, or the lever can not work the pump. Turn the engine 1/4 turn or so to allow better pumping if necessary. You should get a good squirt of fuel through at each stroke. If not you still have a blockage - more than likely the gauze filter in the pump.

Check if there is a good flow of fuel to the pump too - easy enough if your fuel is gravity fed. If its suction fed, then you may well have an air leak, often a filter seal is leaking.

I cant see how an engine that has stood for just 10 months would lose compression on all 4 cylinders. Extended cranking trying to start it would splash enough oil up to re-seal the rings. A stuck valve would only affect 1 cylinder, and the engine would still run, albeit roughly.

 

[NormanB]

Hope your engine seacock is shut.

 

[<152587>]

Indirect injection, these engines suffer from the heater plugs getting bunged up with carbon. Extreme start probs when this happens. Worth a check.

 

[Captn Black]

Thanks for replies. The seacock was shut during the 10 months, but open now.

Glow plugs drawing power when activated, though they aren't needed here.

Every single line individually removed and cleaned. A good squirt of fuel comes through at all stages of bleeding, and through all lines, except the high pressure lines.

So, the injector gause? Anything to watch out for when I start that job?

 

[Topcat47]

If you have the "bug", cleaning filters pumps and lines won't cure it, although it is a necessary part of the process. The only long term answer is to empty the tank and clean it thoroughly. A friend with a modern fuel tank pulled the outlet out if the top and cut off a couple of inches of the pipe, raising it up and away from the grunge in the bottom of the tank as a "get me home" answer.

Hope something works....

 

[RichardS]

I cant see how an engine that has stood for just 10 months would lose compression on all 4 cylinders. Extended cranking trying to start it would splash enough oil up to re-seal the rings. A stuck valve would only affect 1 cylinder, and the engine would still run, albeit roughly.

I agree that it seems very unlikely. The only reason I have suggested it is that I have started dozens of petrol/diesel/2T/4T engines with fuelling problems over the years using a squirt of fuel directly into the air intake, often using a hairdryer, and the engine nearly always starts ..... if only for a quick frenetic burst.

If the engine is petrol and there is no frenetic burst then I know it's probably an ignition problem. If the engine is diesel and there's no burst...... then what?

Richard

 

[vyv_cox]

Compression can be tested easily for 'working or not working' by barring the engine over. It should be quite difficult to get it over top dead centre on all cylinders.

Your fuel flow measured at a drop every ten seconds is impossibly low. Check that the lift pump is working correctly by disconnecting the pipe downstream and either turning the engine over on starter motor or with its own lever. Check the oil level in the sump, which will increase if the lift pump diaphragm has failed. When engine turned over on starter motor with a connection to an injector loosened it should squirt appreciably.

 

[Captn Black]

I did already check the lift pump by disconnecting it from main filter and using lever, great flow. However, it does take a half a minute or so to completely refill after the first half dozen pumps when everything is connected.

 

[Captn Black]

Damn it, every time I try edit post it gets deleted. I try again -

I opened up injector pump diesel inlet, filter was little dirty, and pieces of main return valve spring were inside union, before filter. Clean now, I take another look at lift pump before bleeding.

 

[ghostlymoron]

You can't edit a post in 'mobile' mode it always deletes it.