Am I too inexperienced to take my boat round mull of kintyre ?

[pcatterall]

You have a seaworthy boat and obviously a careful attitude. I don’t think you will have any problems.

+1 on that advice. If you ensure that the weather is good you will be fine. We have sailed through some 'much feared' areas in good weather and then wondered what all the fuss was about, then again we have had pretty torrid times in 'safe sailing' areas when we have got the weather wrong!

 

[ctva]

I’d go with Blue_mischief and Blowing Old Boots.

If if you have to ask given the time of year, short weather windows and short daylight, the Canal is the only real seamanship choice. Have you experience of night sailing and nav? I do a lot of night work and have found many experienced “daylight” sailors get totally lost as they thought it would be easy.

The Canal is good this time of year, no slow transiters and no midges. We came through last Weekend in a total of about 6 hours (not inc the bit from Crinan to Bellanoch ) and we were two up.

As for Sandpoint, basic, no posh restaurants, no on site chandlery and no flower pots. What you do get is a professional working yard with great workers who are always helpful and accommodating, power, water and cat parking. What more do you need? Another thing is that their 6 month price is all inclusive, unlike others which add everything on to a basic price.

We came out on Tuesday 3.5 hrs before HW and had 2.2m below the keel (1.8m) at the turn by the cardinal. Passed about 20m from it. Keeping close to the outside of the bend at the Rock we went down to 1.4m then straight to the lift out pontoon at 0.2m, all soft mud.

I’ve been using Sandpoint for 15 years (not every winter) and would use it in preference to any other yard for service, cost and staff.

Let us us know how you get on and we’ll see you in the yard.

Chris

 

[Quandary]

Done it lots of times, quite a few of them in the dark, the route is well lit (as long as you clear Cara which is not), but never as late as October, to be comfortable as a first attempt the OP really needs 2 consecutive days of fairly benign weather, ideally with a light NW wind and tides which allow berthing in daylight. Not easterlies if stopping in Ardminish or Jura, though they would make the long drag down to the Mull Light more comfortable.
Personally I think that it is getting a bit late to find a suitable 36 hr window of favourable streams in daylight and comfortable winds. Doing it at night is as easy as in the daytime and somehow less scary though it precludes skimming round close under the cliffs and also means you may have to anchor or find a mooring in the dark as you can not make Crinan to the Mull on one tide, going in to Campbeltown after dark should be okay now as there should be free berths every night as most cruising folk have already gone home. It is always much easier coming the other way with the S. westerlies pushing you along rather than having to crash through them.
Perhaps leave it until the return leg?
I do not agree that the MoK is no more uncomfortable than the Sound of Luing, I never had to put my kids below with the hatches closed in the latter but that occasion was about 30 years ago, and while I nowadays rarely go round more than once or twice a year it has nearly always been pleasant.
An exception was in May this year when we came down Sanda Sound motoring in a flat calm (as forecast) only to be flattened time after time by catabatic gusts whooshing down off the west side of the cliffs, nothing forecast they were very local, the sea was flat with almost no whitetops a couple of miles to our west, they were easterlies so made Ardminish very uncomfortable and a jaunt over to Craighouse to try to get some sleep was no better.

 

[Quandary]

I’d go with Blue_mischief and Blowing Old Boots.

The Canal is good this time of year, no slow transiters and no midges. We came through last Weekend in a total of about 6 hours (not inc the bit from Crinan to Bellanoch ) and we were two up.

Chris

That was an amazing time for this year, how long did you have to wait to lock out?

 

[ctva]

That was an amazing time for this year, how long did you have to wait to lock out?

Yes, the last three locks took almost as long as the rest of the canal! Hope you had a nice short snack at Otter Spit. Did you get back in or have to wait till Monday?

 

[[3889]]

The first time I went round was in my first full year of owning myself what had been the family Westerly Jouster - 21' long. We waited two days in Campbeltown for a nice forecast and then went round with no problems.



The Jouster stayed at Crinan for years, on a Crinan Boats mooring, but had to leave in the winter. I used to put her in the canal, but that's a lot less easy than it was because of the Boat Safety Scheme nonsense.



I agree on both counts. The inshore route is very, very inshore - you have to dodge round every point and into every bay - but it works well and is entertaining. We passed the lighthouse heading east at over 11kt this summer, of which only 4kt was the boat ...

Two days in Campbeltown? Personally I'd prefer problems off the Mull.

 

[Crinan12]

Spyro 'we' would be myself and my girlfriend- she is as inexperienced as me
We've never sailed in the dark and I wouldn't do it yet if it was just the 2 of us
The plan would be to overnight in gigha then campbeltown but yes the light is against us now. I suppose we will just have to see what the weather does. It doesn't look great. We didn't want to take the boat back any earlier in the year because we've still been using it a lot.

I'd sooner just go to the boat yard at Crinan than do the canal I think.

Anyway thanks to all for your help - I'll let you know what we do

Douglas

 

[steve yates]

Night is your friend at this time of year, you need to get used to it for the timings the tides. Trying to squeeze everything into the shorter hours off day.ight will cause you far more issues than just sailing at night.
The canal is boring, you want a proper trip and a bit of an adventure, good for you. If you can wait for a decent forecast you'll be fine.
The best way to do it first is to leave in the dark. Go to gigha or Isla, get yourself rested and organised, work out your tides and then leave after midnight sometime if that works.
Have your sleeping bag in the cockpit, a big flask and a clear forecast with a moon if your lucky. It will be magical!
Stay well off, aim for the edge of the shipping lane and stay off that. If wind and tide with you, turn in for the run inside Sandra, if not just keep going well past it and then turn up the Clyde.
Dawn at sea can be breathtaking. This way sailing in the dark is part of the adventure and the rest of it is actually dead safe. Nothing to hit, no overfalls to get caught in. And the shorter hours of daylight no issue.

 

[steve yates]

Oh, and ignore the derogatory comments about Campbeltown. The folk that turn their nose up at it usually like soulless places like Largs marina and wouldn't use sandypoint either.

 

[Robert Wilson]

Night is your friend at this time of year, you need to get used to it for the timings the tides. Trying to squeeze everything into the shorter hours off day.ight will cause you far more issues than just sailing at night.
The canal is boring, you want a proper trip and a bit of an adventure, good for you. If you can wait for a decent forecast you'll be fine.
The best way to do it first is to leave in the dark. Go to gigha or Isla, get yourself rested and organised, work out your tides and then leave after midnight sometime if that works.
Have your sleeping bag in the cockpit, a big flask and a clear forecast with a moon if your lucky. It will be magical!
Stay well off, aim for the edge of the shipping lane and stay off that. If wind and tide with you, turn in for the run inside Sandra, if not just keep going well past it and then turn up the Clyde.
Dawn at sea can be breathtaking. This way sailing in the dark is part of the adventure and the rest of it is actually dead safe. Nothing to hit, no overfalls to get caught in. And the shorter hours of daylight no issue.

+1

I have not done the inside passage, and wouldn't want to for the first time , in the dark.
You both sound adventurous, which is good, and you sound wisely aware of danger - which is even better.:encouragement:
Some sound advice from many experienced west coast sailors.
I for one like the advice Steve Y was given you.
My addition would be to have as many "what ifs" identified and a few good plans to deal with as many as you can identify.

I have passed southwards only once and that was very late on a May evening, so getting quite dark. I went as Steve suggests and had a glorious sail, in full confidence.

The very best of luck and enjoyment - and let us know how you get on.

P.S. Campbeltown is no so bad either - but go to the pool complex for showers etc, not the grotty "conveniences" up a dark, narrow alleyway

 

[KAM]

Consider going via Port Ellen. It's a nice hop down through the Ardmore islands. Psychologically it's a good place to rest up if the weather is bad and you can always get the ferry/bus home and try again later. Gives you a better angle with prevailing winds and less of a detour if you decide to give the mull a wide berth. It seems easier to judge the weather conditions approaching the mull from seaward rather than hugging the kintyre shore. Last few times I've been round it has seemed to be less windy at night.

 

[Spyro]

Spyro 'we' would be myself and my girlfriend- she is as inexperienced as me
We've never sailed in the dark and I wouldn't do it yet if it was just the 2 of us
The plan would be to overnight in gigha then campbeltown but yes the light is against us now. I suppose we will just have to see what the weather does. It doesn't look great. We didn't want to take the boat back any earlier in the year because we've still been using it a lot.

I'd sooner just go to the boat yard at Crinan than do the canal I think.

Anyway thanks to all for your help - I'll let you know what we do

Douglas

Can you both get time off at short notice. Waiting for a suitable weather/tides window at just weekends this time of year is very limiting. It’s a long slog down to the Mull with no stopping places and once there it could be 3 hours to Campbeltown so if everything is ideal you could be looking at a 8 or 9 hour passage, if everything isn’t it could take a lot longer. How is your girlfriend on the boat? That trip this time of year could put her right off.

 

[awol]

Personally, I would take the relative certainty of the Crinan at this time of year but if it must be the MoK then confidence in your engine is a good idea. I have probably motored round more often than sailed despite forecasts of favourable winds. The long range forecast shows little sign of stability for all of October but you may be lucky.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Luck should not be a factor fir all those wishing luck on the voyage.

 

[Crinan12]

Think folk suggesting luck just mean lucky in terms of a good weather window to have opportunity to go.
Spyro my girlfriend is good, probably less of a whinger than me actually.
Sailing is luxurius compared with our other hobbies so the roughing it won't be an issue I don't think. It's just we've found the first 2 years of boat ownership amazing but also quite nerve wracking some of the time and that's mainly been pottering about between Crinan and Craighouse. So going round the mull would be a big deal for us.
If we don't manage to get round the mull this year I think we will do a trip to the clyde in fair weather next summer just so if we attempt the same trip later in the year to get home we've at least experienced it before

Yes engine reliable and not old.

Cheers

 

[A1Sailor]

I think a good weather window is essential, particularly for the first time. My first few were westbound from the Clyde. I've always been a bit apprehensive about going West to East. It is a long way from MoK to Gigha and even further the other way - taking the prevailing wind into consideration. You need to have the tide with you, but avoid at all costs having too much wind "against tide". By this I mean beating into strengthening wind with strong tide under you. I've been caught out several times - and none of them at the MoK! It is best avoided... A memorable trip was from Tayvallich to Crinan and I got caught out, short handed, with too much sail up beating northwards with the north-going tide just north of the McCormaig Isles. No roller reefing - so I baled out into the bay south of Keills to get sorted.

On another occasion I sailed overnight from Largs, and the wind was strengthening as we beam reached towards the Sound of Sanda at dawn. The tide was about to turn west and I didn't fancy the possible wind/tide conditions off the MoK itself. So I chickened out, anchored off Sanda for a sleep, went to the pub and set off the following morning - a glorious sail to Rathlin then Ballycastle ensued.:encouragement:

I've only been round West to East once - and it was boring. Motored from Gigha then cast a crew adrift in the dinghy to take some pics with the sails up:

Yup - sailed round in circles. We were going to the Clyde, honest!

The principles of a trip round the MoK are exactly the same as many other headlands west of Kintyre - or indeed anywhere. It is just that the distances a bit bigger and the wind/tide can be a bit stronger. The last two are predictable, to a degree. I guess a key principle is to always have a plan B...

 

[A1Sailor]

Consider going via Port Ellen. It's a nice hop down through the Ardmore islands. Psychologically it's a good place to rest up if the weather is bad and you can always get the ferry/bus home and try again later. Gives you a better angle with prevailing winds and less of a detour if you decide to give the mull a wide berth. It seems easier to judge the weather conditions approaching the mull from seaward rather than hugging the kintyre shore. Last few times I've been round it has seemed to be less windy at night.

You can also hop from there to Rathlin then Ballycastle, although there are obviously tidal considerations there too! So much of this is weather dependent...

 

[awol]

One of the "joys" of the Scottish Islands Peaks Race is the lack of choice in timing and weather for rounding MoK. I note I have done 10 of these races - 1 curtailed at Salen due to weather and forecast of 9m(!) waves at the Mull and the other 9 had roundings in various weathers and tidal states. As Geoff of this parish may concur - he had "my" runners on board this year - there is a deal of pressure to get round no matter what. The worst, I think, but it all melds together after a while, was the year when it was SE5/6 and we were short tacking in the dark with boards of about 50m in to about 20m from the shore when I couldn't keep my eyes open any more. Next time I surfaced we were still beating but were closer to Rathlin than Sanda - the crew had tried a wee bit longer board and that was it. The best was a couple of years ago, the first year of the Yellowbrick trackers, when we dropped anchor at dusk about a length off the rocks when the tide started flowing faster than we were sailing. The spiders' webs of tracks that the other boats created that night were a joy to behold while we slept the best part of 6 hours.

 

[KAM]

You can also hop from there to Rathlin then Ballycastle, although there are obviously tidal considerations there too! So much of this is weather dependent...

Bailed out to Rathlin once many years ago after getting rolled 180 degrees and getting the cockpit completely filled.

 

[KAM]

One of the "joys" of the Scottish Islands Peaks Race is the lack of choice in timing and weather for rounding MoK. I note I have done 10 of these races - 1 curtailed at Salen due to weather and forecast of 9m(!) waves at the Mull and the other 9 had roundings in various weathers and tidal states. As Geoff of this parish may concur - he had "my" runners on board this year - there is a deal of pressure to get round no matter what. The worst, I think, but it all melds together after a while, was the year when it was SE5/6 and we were short tacking in the dark with boards of about 50m in to about 20m from the shore when I couldn't keep my eyes open any more. Next time I surfaced we were still beating but were closer to Rathlin than Sanda - the crew had tried a wee bit longer board and that was it. The best was a couple of years ago, the first year of the Yellowbrick trackers, when we dropped anchor at dusk about a length off the rocks when the tide started flowing faster than we were sailing. The spiders' webs of tracks that the other boats created that night were a joy to behold while we slept the best part of 6 hours.

In the 1989 SIPR we anchored in the North channel with a kedge on 3 climbing ropes. We thought we were stationary until the kedge suddenly bit and created an enormous bow wave.