A potential tragedy

[dunedin]

We fully intend to restore the boat and will have to replace the ingot, but it is the principle of the thing. This man is selling other boats in the locale and it might be his MO to strip the boat of any precious metals. And to make matters worse, he has now accepted via text that he will replace the ingot, but instead brought pig iron as a replacement, which of course will rot the hull of our wooden boat.

As other have said, you are unlikely to make much progress claiming against a private individual.
But if he is “selling other boats” he may be a business - or a covert business. In this case Trading Standards might be interested - though probably not unless multiple reports.
On the other hand, HMRC might be the most proactive organisation, if they think somebody is trading and making profits without declaring the income. Perhaps asking whether he has declared to HMRC the profits on the sold lead - and on the various boats you think he is buying and selling - might be more likely to catch his attention. it is just possible this could encourage him to replace the lost lead, particualrly if your “brother-in-law is an HMRC tax investigator”.
But need to be cautious if press your arguments too far. Nasty guys often have nasty friends.

Hence as others have said, probably best to treat as a lesson in life.

 

[chrishscorp]

I am local, sadly just sold several weeks ago 3 full sacks of lead however i do still have some but not sure how much i can have a look if interested.

I think you will sadly be on a hiding to nowhere legally other than running up a big bill.

 

[Wing Mark]

Back last century, I met someone who scrounged a lot of lead in the form of wheel balancing weights.
There's a story about getting lead out of the sand behind a rifle range.

Personally, I would not rush to spend a lot of money, stuff turns up if you wait.
Do the minimum with iron for now and keep your eyes open for any lead that's available cheaply.

 

[PaulRainbow]

If the boat is in need of restoration i would forget about the lead for now, unless some turns up cheaply. Get the boat as near finished as possible, get her afloat and only put in what's needed for trim.

In the meantime, perhaps the OP could start a new thread, detailing what the boat is, what it needs, projected budget and some pics. I'm sure they'll get plenty of good advice.

 

[Daydream believer]

And to make matters worse, he has now accepted via text that he will replace the ingot, but instead brought pig iron as a replacement,

What is cast iron worth as scrap these days? Take the offer & sell it to the scrap dealer. If you get £ 50 it is better than nothing.

 

[pandos]

...... Lawyers are almost universally complete arses. They’ll escalate and inflame proceedings for their own benefit. You’ll quickly run up costs which far exceed the value of the claim and incur levels of stress and anxiety far beyond what's justified.....

Little doubt about what you think of lawyers...

 

[RobF]

If the only thing wrong with the boat is the lack of lead, think yourself lucky that you didn't commission a surveyor (as the cost of a surveyor for this vessel would be much higher than the cost of replacing the lead).

I appreciate you're a bit peeved with the vendor, but you'll incur greater costs renovating the boat. Suggest you put it down to experience (I suspect everyone with a boat has gained experience the 'expensive' way).

 

[Bajansailor]

If the boat is in need of restoration i would forget about the lead for now, unless some turns up cheaply. Get the boat as near finished as possible, get her afloat and only put in what's needed for trim.

In the meantime, perhaps the OP could start a new thread, detailing what the boat is, what it needs, projected budget and some pics. I'm sure they'll get plenty of good advice.

Absolutely!
@theresamh please do start a new thread and tell us more about the boat - and please do post as many photos as you have.
You will receive lots of free survey advice on here - some will probably be contradictory, but such is the nature of forums.

 

[DownWest]

I just kept an eye out for tyre weights and bits of lead plumbing pipe , while I was building the boat. By the time I needed the ballast, I found I had collected enough, all for free.
I imagine you will be spending some time sorting the boat, so get collecting. BTW, Iron is 2/3ds the wight of lead, so likely the iron would do the job without raising the cabin sole.... As said, it only for trimming.

 

[theresamh]

The lead may have been sold for £320, doesn't mean you can buy it back for the same!

I'm a lawyer, but not an arse lol, but I hear what you are saying. I know that I can sue this man, only if nothing but to make his life miserable, but I'd rather spend the money on our boat tbh, really what I wanted were opinions on is the criminal aspect and to canvass what people felt. I have called 101 in any event and am waiting for an officer to call us, from the fraud time. I am hoping for a sympathetic officer that although may not charge our hero, but will at least contact him and let him know that he is sailing close to the wind (pardon the pun)

 

[theresamh]

As many others have scribed, 320kgs isn't a huge amount on a 30' wooden boat. For a start, she'll have 'taken up' that amount over the years anyway!
On my Folkboat, the ballast bolted to the keel is 1000kgs, about a half of the overall weight of the boat.
Missing that would be noticable.
Your own boat is probably in the region of 6000kgs at the very least, so you're missing 5% at the most; it might even add to the performance of the boat!
The analogy of 3 fat guys in the cabin is a good one.
As an aside, as Paul has stated this is an excellent resource for help, as is the 'Classic & Wooden' section, which might have more relevance for less general issues that you may have.
PBO caters for our AWB brethren, rather than connoiseurs.......

Thank you

 

[Stemar]

As you put the bitter taste of the purchase behind you and start work on your boat, I want to wish you the best of luck with the restoration. May this be the worst problem you come across.

Please keep us posted on your progress, with pics

 

[ghostlymoron]

Is the boat floating now, or shore-side? Through hard experience I believe that you'll look back and find the £350 expense quite trivial in the future, compared to the outgoings involved in caring for a vintage wooden boat, and suggest that you put it in the "There's a lesson learnt" box.
I see that this is your 1st day here, so welcome and as soon as you're able, it'd be nice to see some pictures, or the advert from which you bought the boat.

320kg would be nearly £1k at eBay rates but I agree there's not much you can do apart from bad mouthing the seller. In future you may wish to engage a surveyor for a significant purchase.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Or just pour concrete directly into the bilges.

This was done on the Bristol Channel Pilot cutters of the period 1880 - 1920.
On most of those boats, the bits covered in concrete had the least rot.

Lead is significantly denser than concrete.

 

[chrishscorp]

320kg would be nearly £1k at eBay rates but I agree there's not much you can do apart from bad mouthing the seller. In future you may wish to engage a surveyor for a significant purchase.

Tha last 140 Kg I sold I got £1.25 p/kg for I clearly need to be casting lead ingots !!

 

[Blueboatman]

Something is not right here
Starting with the writing style and grammar
Then assertions of massive competency and due diligence in inspection of the product despite the reality of if you like , surveying the product after the decision to buy was taken
An amicable meeting half way might be an option -if indeed this whole thing is what it purports to be - but as a sailor myself I would be interested in hearing why the removal of a relatively small keel was undertaken at all

 

[duncan99210]

There's a story about getting lead out of the sand behind a rifle range.

The stop butts at the end of a traditional rifle range used to be sieved on a regular basis to recover the spent lead and copper (from the bullet casings). At one time the metal was the range wardens perks for the job of sieving. That’s long gone, the job still happens but it’s done by a contractor observing proper health and safety precautions due to the lead dust. So regretably no longer an option….

 

[scottie]

OP confessed that he is a lawyer (see #70) which perhaps explains his preference for litigation?

was it Mark Twayne who made reference to lawyers being their own clients

 

[sailorbenji]

OP confessed that he is a lawyer (see #70) which perhaps explains his preference for litigation?

was it Mark Twayne who made reference to lawyers being their own clients

Confessed he is a lawyer, whilst simultaneously asking a forum of sailing enthusiasts for advice on whether it might be a criminal matter or not. Would one not expect a lawyer might/should know this already, and if not their specialty, at least be able to consult with a colleague?

Equally, in my experience of lawyers, they're pretty risk-averse types on the whole, which makes the lack of a survey a surprise. Likewise you'd think a pretty watertight sale contract would have been drafted.

I agree with Blueboatman, something is a bit "off" with the whole thing.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I'm a lawyer, but not an arse lol.

The jury's out on that for now.

Tell us what boat it is. At the moment the odds are that he's done you a favour by taking out superfluous weight.