A potential tragedy

[Wing Mark]

Boat builder has said that there is additional weight in the keel of the boat, but we must in addition replace that what has been taken. We have no problem replacing the lead, what we have a problem with, is the exposure to danger that the sellers withholding of information may have caused, when all he simply had to say was that he had removed it, whilst we ere negotiating.

I doubt there was any increase in your danger by removing the lead.
Internal ballast on wooden boats is often more about fore/aft trim .
The external keel does most of the work of keeping the boat right way up..
AIUI, it's generally added after launching, because two wooden boats built to the same lines in a traditional yard will often float a little differently and the designers didn't have computers to get the external keel exact. Some don't even come out symmetrical so the ballast may be more on one side!

 

[scottie]

We fully intend to restore the boat and will have to replace the ingot, but it is the principle of the thing. This man is selling other boats in the locale and it might be his MO to strip the boat of any precious metals. And to make matters worse, he has now accepted via text that he will replace the ingot, but instead brought pig iron as a replacement, which of course will rot the hull of our wooden boat.

I would suggest that you have been at least taken advantage of but your lack of knowledge is unfortunately not helping determine to what extent
I believe that there is plenty of non lead ballast about and not rotting boats

 

[UK-WOOZY]

ship happens seems to have had all types of heavy objects for their ballast

 

[KeelsonGraham]

For £320 of lead, don’t even think of legal recourse or principles. Lawyers are almost universally complete arses. They’ll escalate and inflame proceedings for their own benefit. You’ll quickly run up costs which far exceed the value of the claim and incur levels of stress and anxiety far beyond what's justified. You’ve been swindled but let it go.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I get your frustration but I don't think there's a lot you can do.

This is why lawyers earn good money.
Definition of sail
intransitive verb
1: to travel on water in a ship
2: to travel on water by the action of wind upon sails or by other means

He could easily say, 'yes it can be sailed. Oh, you wanted to use the sails?'

He also said that he "had bought the boat directly from the previous owner", which is literally true but perhaps not from the 'previous owner' that the OP assumed it was.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I would suggest that you have been at least taken advantage of but your lack of knowledge is unfortunately not helping determine to what extent
I believe that there is plenty of non lead ballast about and not rotting boats

Anyone familiar with the traditional boats in the Baltimore Bay area will be aware that the Heir Island Lobster Boats use railway fishplates from the long defunct Skibbereen to Baltimore branch line as internal ballast.

 

[Wing Mark]

For £320 of lead, don’t even think of legal recourse or principles. Lawyers are almost universally complete arses. They’ll escalate and inflame proceedings for their own benefit. You’ll quickly run up costs which far exceed the value of the claim and incur levels of stress and anxiety far beyond what's justified. You’ve been swindled but let it go.

The lead may have been sold for £320, doesn't mean you can buy it back for the same!

 

[Wing Mark]

Anyone familiar with the traditional boats in the Baltimore Bay area will be aware that the Heir Island Lobster Boats use railway fishplates from the long defunct Skibbereen to Baltimore branch line as internal ballast.

And anyone familiar with traditional boats will know that they were built down to a price and expected to last about 30 or 40 years.

For sure, one could use iron ballast and epoxy it or something to keep it away from any susceptible wood or other metals, to some extent.

 

[westernman]

And anyone familiar with traditional boats will know that they were built down to a price and expected to last about 30 or 40 years.

For sure, one could use iron ballast and epoxy it or something to keep it away from any susceptible wood or other metals, to some extent.

Or just pour concrete directly into the bilges.

This was done on the Bristol Channel Pilot cutters of the period 1880 - 1920.
On most of those boats, the bits covered in concrete had the least rot.

 

[Hacker]

We are restoring a Truro oyster boat that had just over 700kg of concrete poured in the bilge (plus an external lead keel). Water had got around the edge of the concrete and caused a lot of rot damage; so I wouldn’t recommend this approach if you want the boat to last. We will recast the external keel and add most of the weight back to that just leaving a small amount internally to adjust the trim.

 

[theresamh]

We are restoring a Truro oyster boat that had just over 700kg of concrete poured in the bilge (plus an external lead keel). Water had got around the edge of the concrete and caused a lot of rot damage; so I wouldn’t recommend this approach if you want the boat to last. We will recast the external keel and add most of the weight back to that just leaving a small amount internally to adjust the trim.

We are restoring a Truro oyster boat that had just over 700kg of concrete poured in the bilge (plus an external lead keel). Water had got around the edge of the concrete and caused a lot of rot damage; so I wouldn’t recommend this approach if you want the boat to last. We will recast the external keel and add most of the weight back to that just leaving a small amount internally to adjust the trim.

Thanks, as you can tell we are novices to boats and we are just trying to enjoy the experience of owning, restoring and sailing our bought

 

[UK-WOOZY]

Thanks, as you can tell we are novices to boats and we are just trying to enjoy the experience of owning, restoring and sailing our bought

sorry, but then that would of been better to go the GRP route

for other wood boat owners check out-

Tally ho
Sailing Yaba
Ship Shape

 

[prv]

Or just pour concrete directly into the bilges.

There's a big difference in density between lead and concrete. If the boat was designed for X cwt of lead in one location, an equivalent weight of concrete spread further out and (especially) higher up will not have the same effect.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks, as you can tell we are novices to boats and we are just trying to enjoy the experience of owning, restoring and sailing our bought

This forum is a great resource that will help you to do this.

 

[westernman]

There's a big difference in density between lead and concrete. If the boat was designed for X cwt of lead in one location, an equivalent weight of concrete spread further out and (especially) higher up will not have the same effect.

Pete

True. But we are talking about just 320kg which is probably just to adjust trim rather than anything else.

 

[jamie N]

As many others have scribed, 320kgs isn't a huge amount on a 30' wooden boat. For a start, she'll have 'taken up' that amount over the years anyway!
On my Folkboat, the ballast bolted to the keel is 1000kgs, about a half of the overall weight of the boat.
Missing that would be noticable.
Your own boat is probably in the region of 6000kgs at the very least, so you're missing 5% at the most; it might even add to the performance of the boat!
The analogy of 3 fat guys in the cabin is a good one.
As an aside, as Paul has stated this is an excellent resource for help, as is the 'Classic & Wooden' section, which might have more relevance for less general issues that you may have.
PBO caters for our AWB brethren, rather than connoiseurs.......

 

[Wing Mark]

There's a big difference in density between lead and concrete. If the boat was designed for X cwt of lead in one location, an equivalent weight of concrete spread further out and (especially) higher up will not have the same effect.

Pete

It's also a lot more efficient at filling the space though.
Lead ballast lumps normally have big gaps full of dirty water and lost screwdrivers etc
I would not advocate concrete, but then I would not be advocating a wooden boat either.
I expect the absent lead is the least of the OP's problems.

 

[neilf39]

I found and spoke to the scrap dealer he sold the lead to and they have said it was 320KG, but you are right we will have to have a surveyor take a look, before we go anywhere with the boat

May just be the lead used to adjust the balance of the boat. Are you sure it does not have a cast keel on the bottom?

 

[westernman]

May just be the lead used to adjust the balance of the boat. Are you sure it does not have a cast keel on the bottom?

My boat has 13,000 kg of lead hanging off the bottom of the keel.

 

[Rappey]

My 980kg 20ft sailboat has 54% ballast.. Thats over 500 kg? 320kg does not sound like a lot of weight for a 30 ft boat..
Dont fill the bilge with concrete.. It just promotes rot and then you cant get to it..
Since your going to be restoring the boat then the lead would just get in the way? bide your time and you may be able to find what you need cheaper..