You big-girls-blouses don't like holes in boats...??

[Twister_Ken]

Another one bites the mud

Press Notice No: 295/02
Saturday, 23 November 2002                               


YACHT SINKS IN RIVER YTHAN, NEWBURGH, SCOTLAND

A 30 foot yacht 'Early Light' sank early this morning in the river Ythan, Newburgh.

Aberdeen Coastguard were alerted at 2:46 a.m. after the owner of the vessel had decided to take his yacht to a safer haven, after reports of the yacht banging against the quayside. The owner decided to anchor the yacht in the river, however the wind a south easterly force 6 -7 swept the yacht into an old mooring and holed the vessel.

A member of the public contacted the Aberdeen Coastguard who in turn tasked Coastguard rescue teams from Cruden Bay, Collieston and Newburgh and scrambled a rescue helicopter from RAF Lossiemouth.

The yacht was listing and taking in water. The owner was wearing foul weather gear but was unable to gain access to his life jacket due to the flooding in the cabin.

 

[nicho]

Re: Don\'t count on it, Nicho, do you ...

Andrew,

The liferaft's fine and will continue to stay in its stowage, I trust!!. Actually, don't remember the incident you refer to - I was a "stinkie" in those days - (but we were talking about hole on the foreward section of the hull wern't we?) but at F4/5 it was probably travelling at a fair old speed when it struck!! In fairness Bavaria do use quality stuff (Selden mast.boom, Harken winches etc). I guess most boats would suffer in the same way, and once dismasted, the offending item is likely to punch through any hull unless cleared quickly. Read Joachim Schults book "Mayday", and you will see most boats, old and modern, will (and have) founder if striking banks/reefs at any sort of rate of knots.

 

[nicho]

Re: Errol Flynn

Hah! I had a pal in my early years (still have one or two!), who's fun would be to go into a pub just before closing time, and start a fight that would eventually get the whole pub embroiled. Just before the police arrived, he'd slip out the back door and quietly disappear, leaving everyone else dazed, bruised and battered. I'm exhausted just reading it!

Does this sound familiar to you Mr O.??? You aren't a reincarnation of Steve 101 are you? - bet you used to pick wings off butterflies when you were young!!

Great thread....

Mike N

 

[AndrewB]

How norms change!

Racing yachts have been piling onto the Bramble Bank since time immemorial (done it myself in a Sigma) and it isn't usual for them to lose their keels as a result.

Its recent wisdom that 'most boats will founder if striking banks/reefs at any sort of rate of knots'. A change of expectation subtly introduced by the manufacturers - in consequence of the much greater size, light build and the exposed, bottom weighted fin keels that are fashionable now for cruising yachts - and made possible by the reliability of modern echo-sounders. I recall first coming across this about 10 years ago, when chartering an early example of the new breed. A pleasure to sail, but how we scoffed at the warning that "going aground at a speed of 4 knots will irrevocably damage the keel"!

I'm certainly not paranoid about this happening to my own cruising yacht. Not that I'd recommend regularly crashing into banks/reefs, but it happens, specially in the Thames Estuary. Having to be constantly cautious ends up creating undue restrictions on how and where you can sail.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: I\'ve had two boats holed

Qualifications? No. Though I do now sail with my fenders out.

The first time I wasn't present. The navy sank it for me by shooting a big wave through the half tide moorings above Hardway. Slammed a bilge keel through the hull. The boatyard rang me up and said "Mr. Walsh your boat no longer rises with the tide." Which I thought was a fine way of putting it.

The second time was a racing accident and yes we did win the protest.

 

[nicho]

Re: How norms change!

Andrew

I guess you are right - the best thing is not to hit anything solid of course, and that applies to all sorts of transport, cars, motorbikes, trains and especially planes!

Mike N.

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: Unsinkable Sadlers.

Talk to Andrew Bray (Ed YW) about it. It cost him a fortune

JJ

 

[Jacket]

Tee-hee, Ken still wins

The official Beaufort scale is defined in wind pressures, not speeds. This is because for scientific purposes the movement of air is measured by recording the wind pressure. They have to do it this way, as while a pitot tube is accurate over all wind speeds, a set of twizzly cups (what are they called? the things on top of a mast) is only really accurate for a relatively small range of wind speeds.

Sure, we see them expressed in terms of knots, but only because ships find it easier to measure seed than pressure. But thats not the official defenition.

 

[jimmie]

Re: I\'ve had two boats holed

Tom,
Oh dear I'm so sorry I got the wrong end of the stick. Its not the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. Apologies for implying it was your incontinence that caused it. My episode was purely down to that but I think I'm a bit more controlled now. I know a little about getting holes inserted below and believe me its not an experience I care to repeat!

xxx
Jems

 

[wishbone]

Re: Try the Subrella. nm

Will the nice colourful ones you get from your local Jet garage for £2.99 with six squids of diesel do? Or will they clash with the antifoul !!!

Wishbone

 

[claymore]

Don\'t drag me into it

Anyway - Dear Heart has me on a diet just now.

regards
Claymore

 

[claymore]

Amazing

You post one about self bailers which attracts its fair share of gentle and good humoured derision and then you fire off calling everyone a big girls blouse.
Your post is also a bit of a nonsense in that if any boat - other than the 'unsinkable' ones is holed, it will fill up with water and probably sink - or float waterlogged sustained by whatever bits of bouyancy have remained in tact.
Perhaps you should read the Robertsons book which describes quite graphically what happens, or Robin and Maralyn Bailey's book?
And it might also be a good idea if you refrained from comments about people dissappointing their parents - it was a highly personal and cheapshot remark and one we can all live without.

regards
Claymore

 

[Opinionated]

Re: Amazing

Well, what a nasty over-reaction. Big-girls-blouse equates roughly to 'wimp', and as such rates pretty low on my scale of abuse!!

Where does this comment come from:- "comments about people dissappointing their parents"?

I distinctly avoid personal abuse, except where I am joking, and try to make it pretty obvious that I am joking. That is why I had no trouble in apologizing for a reference to Irish, which some people may find offensive.

Claymore, if I have said something which offends you, then I have clearly failed to express myself properly and I am sorry you are offended.

As to the real meat, apart from personalities. You are wrong. There are many boats which share this characteristic, ie. when holed they do not sink. You must have played with a U-tube at school, where we see that 'water finds its own level'. If the level outside (w/l) is below the top of the lockers inside, then a hole in the hull, made into the locker will not flood the boat. Of course, in a heavy seaway, with the water slopping out of the 'box', there is a likelihood of the boat flooding, but this feature of design (e.g. see Rustler, Bowman40, Nic35) will enable the crew to get the hole onto the weather side of the boat, and make remedial repairs in reasonable time. With a hole directly into the flooding areas of the boat, this opportunity does not exist, and avoiding sinking will require much faster action and may not be possible. Just stuffing clothing, sails etc into the locker and fastening the lid, will reduce flooding RATE significantly.

If you choose to disbelieve this, fair enough... you are welcome to your opinion.

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[Opinionated]

Re: Errol Flynn

Just replying to confirm that I am not Steve101. I am, in fact, Errol Flynn, and have to own up to it.


(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[Opinionated]

Re: Another one bites the mud

That's tough. I hate to read about people and/or their boats going down. There, maybe, one day, could be me.

I have been in a house flood, where there was no danger to life, but apart from the sewage and mud, seeing your stuff floating around and ruined... and the prospect of taking ages to recover... it must be really devastating when it is your boat.

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[Opinionated]

Re: No, no, it can\'t possibly have happened...

Replying to these two in reverse order, Ken. I am not sure what you were trying to prove. These two reports are of catastrophes happening to people and make no point in this context at all.

Boats go down. Holes in boats usually the reason. I would like to see design steps adopted to improve the chances of survivability of the boat rather than steps adopted to improve the living accommodation, esp. in the marina. Hence my original post.

I wish Alan Hill, Ian Nicolson et al would pick up the phone.....(make it clear I am speaking metaphorically, for those who always choose to misunderstand).

I think this thread has run its course, Ken, so am not adding more fuel to the fires.

(I don't have to agree with YOUR opinions, but I'll defend your right to express them).

 

[Twister_Ken]

Say hello to Elvis for me. nm

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