maby
Well-known member
Trouble is that the recommended route into Harwich for small craft gets very shallow in places - there have been occasions going through there when the depth sounder reckoned we could have got out and walked!
Woman and two dogs missing after boat crash off Suffolk/Essex coast
- Thread starter WF36
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Bru
Well-known member
I can't say as I've noticed that to be the case but then we draw less than a metre
Least charted depth would be around 2.4m to the South of Landguard buoy which I guess might trouble you deep fin peeps on low water springs
But even then all you'd need to do would be to track north of the recommended line but still to the south of the buoyed channel to find in excess of 4m.
Out where Sundays tragedy occurred there is no actual recommended track as such but there is more than enough depth to stay out of the shipping channels
maby
Well-known member
I can't say as I've noticed that to be the case but then we draw less than a metre
Least charted depth would be around 2.4m to the South of Landguard buoy which I guess might trouble you deep fin peeps on low water springs
But even then all you'd need to do would be to track north of the recommended line but still to the south of the buoyed channel to find in excess of 4m.
Out where Sundays tragedy occurred there is no actual recommended track as such but there is more than enough depth to stay out of the shipping channels
We draw 2m and there have been occasions coming in over that route in a moderate swell when I was convinced we were leaving a dotted line on the bottom!
Bru
Well-known member
Being largely relieved of such concerns is almost sufficient compensation for the frustration of watching everbody else slice up to windward whilst I waffle around going nearly as fast sideways as I am forwards! (Actually, it's not THAT bad, it just feels like it sometimes)
Koeketiene
Well-known member
You must have been very unlucky, or maybe it was near LWS.
We draw 2.2m and it's never happened to us.
That being said, I only tend to keep to the dotted line if there re merchant vessels on the move.
maby
Well-known member
Not really - most of this week, low tide is around 0.5m or less. For that charted depth of 2.4m at Languard buoy, that gives you less than 3m or water - it does not take very much of a wave height to have your keel drawing a dotted line along the bottom, you know! Our problem is also that we usually are approaching Harwich at the end of a passage up from the Thames Estuary - having left at high tide to ride a favourable current up - with the result that we are arriving just about on low tide!
Stork_III
Well-known member
Orca has been raised and brought into Harwick quay, http://www.shotleymarina.com/ships-blog-1262014/
Javelin
Well-known member
I delivered a boat to southwold from Levington today.
I pointed out the area the Moody went down to my crew and the recommended crossing point.
Conditions today were very similar to the day the tragedy happened.
A huge container ship was on its way in, two yachts decided to motorsail in front along the crossing point heading North and two others and ourselves waited till the thing was past and we crossed astern of it.
The yachts that crossed ahead easily crossed but it struck me that if either one had had an engine issue that cross would have been a very different story as the wind was only 5 knots or so astern.
My point being that even when we can see things clearly folk will still take gambles, educated or otherwise.
Most of the time it'll be all right until one day it isn't.
The dredger/moody collision may have been a similar scenario where they saw each other, made a judgement that just went badly wrong, rope round the prop, morse cable snapped, steering cable jammed etc.
I pointed out the area the Moody went down to my crew and the recommended crossing point.
Conditions today were very similar to the day the tragedy happened.
A huge container ship was on its way in, two yachts decided to motorsail in front along the crossing point heading North and two others and ourselves waited till the thing was past and we crossed astern of it.
The yachts that crossed ahead easily crossed but it struck me that if either one had had an engine issue that cross would have been a very different story as the wind was only 5 knots or so astern.
My point being that even when we can see things clearly folk will still take gambles, educated or otherwise.
Most of the time it'll be all right until one day it isn't.
The dredger/moody collision may have been a similar scenario where they saw each other, made a judgement that just went badly wrong, rope round the prop, morse cable snapped, steering cable jammed etc.
Stork_III
Well-known member
I agree, but the yacht went down beyond Cork Sands Beacon, not near the crossing point.
philiphurst
Active member
dogleg
Member
it may be incorrect to automatically assume the yacht was crossing the deep water channel
Cantata
Well-known member
51°55’.86n 001°28’.96e
sailorman
Well-known member
thats 1.4 Nm bearing 228t from the HA By
johnalison
Well-known member
My near neighbour was a witness and first on the scene, but I only have sketchy texts to go on. He has already been interviewed the the MAIB, which sounds quick. It must have been very unpleasant for him too.
Javelin
Well-known member
The location to some extent is immaterial as it the crossing point.
My assertion was to challenge the "we didn't see the other boat" assumption.
Both vessels may have been fully aware of each other and where it went horribly wrong is more based on judgement of a manoeuvre to avoid collision.
I remember one night sailing up the North sea, 40 miles out, seeing a large contact about tree miles away and making an alteration in course only to reverse the decision 5 minutes later as the other vessel looked like she was turning. 5 minutes later this new decision looked bad again so I made a big 90 deg turn and put my engine on and got the hell out of it.
Turned out the contact was a ship which had just anchored and still had its nav lights on and was swinging around as the tide was on the turn.
Point being that its easy to persuade yourself that the other boat is doing something, you adjust and for what ever reason indecision kicks in and you make a fatal error.
My assertion was to challenge the "we didn't see the other boat" assumption.
Both vessels may have been fully aware of each other and where it went horribly wrong is more based on judgement of a manoeuvre to avoid collision.
I remember one night sailing up the North sea, 40 miles out, seeing a large contact about tree miles away and making an alteration in course only to reverse the decision 5 minutes later as the other vessel looked like she was turning. 5 minutes later this new decision looked bad again so I made a big 90 deg turn and put my engine on and got the hell out of it.
Turned out the contact was a ship which had just anchored and still had its nav lights on and was swinging around as the tide was on the turn.
Point being that its easy to persuade yourself that the other boat is doing something, you adjust and for what ever reason indecision kicks in and you make a fatal error.
Tomahawk
Well-known member
When doing a grot master course, the instructer advised to do things that make it very clear to the ship that you are aware and taking avoiding action.
Turning back on yourself, or gong round in a circle.
There are lots of ship collision clips on uTube.
Turning back on yourself, or gong round in a circle.
There are lots of ship collision clips on uTube.
Athene V30
Active member
Basically follow the rules! Alterations should be positive and taken in good time. A 5 degree alteration then another 5 degrees just isn't enough. 45 degrees if not 90. At night turn to show a different light. But don't forget Rule 2 - NO vessel has RIGHT OF WAY regardless of circumstances. As for misinterpretation of the word 'impede' well don't get me started!
I have been responsible at sea for small sailing boats up to a 20,000 ton aircraft carrier operating fixed wing (yes, it was a long time ago) and I would much rather people stick to the rules so their behaviour is predictable than the growing trend of might is right and small boat gets out of the way. The small boat doesn't have the big picture of what else the big boy is trying to avoid.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
It must have been - the last British aircraft carrier to operate fixed wing aircraft was decommissioned in 1979.
How old do you have to be to be allowed to drive a carrier?
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Sorry,
i should have clarified… If you have to give way… make it positive and clear that you are aware.. As you say, a 5 degree change of course is not enough to be visible.. even though it may be more than enough to avoid a collision.
You have responsible for a flat top? We do have a fantastic collection of peeps on this forum..
i should have clarified… If you have to give way… make it positive and clear that you are aware.. As you say, a 5 degree change of course is not enough to be visible.. even though it may be more than enough to avoid a collision.
You have responsible for a flat top? We do have a fantastic collection of peeps on this forum..
Athene V30
Active member
It must have been - the last British aircraft carrier to operate fixed wing aircraft was decommissioned in 1979.
How old do you have to be to be allowed to drive a carrier?
Fred Rift. Sea Harriers had fixed wings and the 'Through Deck Cruisers' were commonly referred to as Aircraft Carriers.
PS I didn't say I drove as I wasn't the Commanding Officer, however as OOW whenever I was on watch I was responsible to the Commanding Officer for the safe operation of the Ship.