Woman and two dogs missing after boat crash off Suffolk/Essex coast

[pvb]

But not charged with manslaughter, just an offence against the Merchant Shipping Act. Fine and costs?

Probably, but reading the report of the incident I'd have said there's a case for holding the yachtsman equally accountable. If you were navigating in that area and wanted to leave the helm, wouldn't you ask someone to at least keep watch and shout if it looks like there may be a problem?

 

[sailorman]

Probably, but reading the report of the incident I'd have said there's a case for holding the yachtsman equally accountable. If you were navigating in that area and wanted to leave the helm, wouldn't you ask someone to at least keep watch and shout if it looks like there may be a problem?

It take 2 to tango & obviously very poor look-out by both vessels

 

[Bru]

What isn't clear from the newspaper article is that the word is that the dredger officer failed to keep a proper lookout ahead of the vessel. Apparently, standing orders on the vessel in question is that alterations of course have to be preceded by a visual check ahead from the bridge wing due to the view ahead from the main bridge being obscured by the suction dredge head

What also isn't mentioned is that Orca was inbound to the Orwell in the outbound South Channel. Orca was to the North of the Rough N. Cardinal mark when she ideally ought to have been South of it (I say ideally because the recommended track for yachts marked on the relevant charts doesn't commence until due South of Harwich No.2 which does not clearly indicate whether yachts etc. are recommended to stay out of the South Channel further out). Although there is no actual prohibition on navigating in the channels in any direction, there are precautionary notes and warnings

It appears from the report and from the gossip that the yacht skipper assumed that the outbound dredger would remain in the deep water channel and pass to the North of them. He therefore ducked down below to go to the heads leaving his wife in the cockpit.

Unfortunately, the dredger was in the habit of cutting the corner and made (refer back to the AIS track I posted at the time if you have a mind to) a gradual swing to starboard out of the Deep Water Channel into the South Channel without, as already mentioned, keeping a proper lookout ahead

From the point at which the yacht skipper observed the dredger in the Deep Water Channel to the collision in the South Channel was less than five minutes

We're back to that golden rule of collision avoidance - if two vessels collide BOTH are at fault

I guess we've all done something similar, I know I have - Jane and I ran Erbas up onto the Foulness Sands in frighteningly similar circumstances just a few weeks later and unaware of the exact cause of the Orca tragedy (after which Karen of this parish scared the carp out of me, by telling me what she'd heard on the grapevine which wasn't general public knowledge at the time!). We got away with some mild embarrassment and a change of underwear. It could easily have been a different story

What I think is going to be of considerable interest is the MAIB report which will hopefully go into much more technical detail. I'm particularly interested to know what the status of the dredgers radar displays was, why Orca wasn't seen on radar or trigger an ARPA alarm and whether Class B AIS on Orca could have made a difference

None of the above should in any way be construed as a lack of sympathy for the poor bloody skipper of Orca. I can't begin to imagine how he feels, in his shoes I'd be devastated. I don't suppose the officers and crew of the dredger are jumping about for joy either

 

[ex-Gladys]

Most of the reports involving this sort of thing the alarms are turned off, ARPA, Watch alert etc....

 

[Athene V30]

I know it was 25 years ago when I was navigating Her Majesty's finest but in good visibility I would rarely use radar for collision avoidance, it would have been by visual bearing and before altering course there would be a call to anyone on the bridge of 'check port / stbd' and a check down the new bearing before turning. You couldn't see very much close to port from the bridge of a CVS / thru deck cruiser / pretend aircraft carrier!

 

[Tomahawk]

There but for good fortune go all of us...

 

[Capt Popeye]

There but for good fortune go all of us...

Yes, well said, Skipper

 

[Mandarin331]

A sobering reminder for all of us us that of the wider responsibilities we have as skipper, watch keeper etc, regardless of our relationship with those we sail with. We are out their for fun, but its a serious business and has to be taken seriously. Whether its a dredger or sandbank I suspect we've all had close shaves. The skipper of Orca has my deepest sympathy.

 

[Athene V30]

From the point at which the yacht skipper observed the dredger in the Deep Water Channel to the collision in the South Channel was less than five minutes

We're back to that golden rule of collision avoidance - if two vessels collide BOTH are at fault

Sailing boat doing 5 knots - Dredger doing what 10 knots max? If both Head on = closing speed of 15 Knots more if not head on so in 5 minutes the boats went from a mile and a quarter to a collision. I cannot comprehend leaving the helm / not looking out for 5 minutes in the approaches to Harwich.

I am sorry for this guy who has lost his wife but am I missing something in seeing a horrendous misjudgement as a Skipper?

I sail singlehanded a lot of the time but still manage to keep a look out.

 

[Bru]

Sailing boat doing 5 knots - Dredger doing what 10 knots max? If both Head on = closing speed of 15 Knots more if not head on so in 5 minutes the boats went from a mile and a quarter to a collision. I cannot comprehend leaving the helm / not looking out for 5 minutes in the approaches to Harwich.

I am sorry for this guy who has lost his wife but am I missing something in seeing a horrendous misjudgement as a Skipper?

I sail singlehanded a lot of the time but still manage to keep a look out.

The key point to grasp is that the yacht skipper was aware of the dredger and assumed, not entirely unreasonably, that it would stay in the deep water channel. That assumption was one I think any of us might have made without the benefit of hindsight

The MAIB report may give further illumination on the actions of the skipper of Orca (did he brief his wife to keep a lookout for example? Did they become aware of the approaching dredger before the collision but were unable to take sufficient avoiding action?)

 

[pvb]

Don't jump to conclusions until after the details become public (I have heard a little more on the grapevine than is generally known but as the matter is going before the courts I'm not putting it on a public forum)

Is what's been reported in this thread in line with the information you heard? Or did you hear something else?

 

[pvb]

I cannot comprehend leaving the helm / not looking out for 5 minutes in the approaches to Harwich.

Have to agree. It appears that the yachtsman was very negligent. And, as a local, surely he'd have known that dredgers go out to dump spoil in shallow areas?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Have to agree. It appears that the yachtsman was very negligent. And, as a local, surely he'd have known that dredgers go out to dump spoil in shallow areas?

Not in any way wishing to malign or comment upon the yacht skipper actions but; as a matter of interest ? if it understood that the skipper went below for a pee (or something else ?) it used to be OK to do such actions in a bucket (empty one) whilst on deck or better still in the cockpit, probably solo sailors do it this way ?
In this way, using a bucket, skipper is still on a lookout, so as to say, maybe one handed, and able to steer the yacht.

 

[sailorman]

Sailing boat doing 5 knots - Dredger doing what 10 knots max? If both Head on = closing speed of 15 Knots more if not head on so in 5 minutes the boats went from a mile and a quarter to a collision. I cannot comprehend leaving the helm / not looking out for 5 minutes in the approaches to Harwich.

I am sorry for this guy who has lost his wife but am I missing something in seeing a horrendous misjudgement as a Skipper?

I sail singlehanded a lot of the time but still manage to keep a look out.

with wife o/b such time as i go below i hand over to her, all very informal but its done "ok she is all yours" is enough

 

[Koeketiene]

it used to be OK to do such actions in a bucket (empty one) whilst on deck or better still in the cockpit, probably solo sailors do it this way ?
In this way, using a bucket, skipper is still on a lookout, so as to say, maybe one handed, and able to steer the yacht.

Why the bucket? Doesn't anyone pee over the side anymore?

with wife o/b such time as i go below i hand over to her, all very informal but its done "ok she is all yours" is enough

+1

 

[Tomahawk]

Can be more dangerous than going below...

 

[Bru]

Is what's been reported in this thread in line with the information you heard?

Basically yes. Some extra detail in the news report on the actions on board Orca, not as much on the actions of the dredger

 

[Seashoreman]

Why the bucket? Doesn't anyone pee over the side anymore?



+1

I sail single handed in this area and pee a lot. I take this very seriously. It would be impossible to re-board if I slipped. I would never risk going below or peeing over the side. I use a bicycle water bottle which can be used standing, dumped, lid on and chucked under sprayhood. After hearing from local lifeboatmen of pulling mens bodies from the sea with their flies open I would never take the risk.
This is not meant to be a frivolous comment in relation to this thread. Just a comment that I am aware that things can go wrong very very quickly in mundane circumstances.

 

[Athene V30]

Why the bucket? Doesn't anyone pee over the side anymore?

Not over the side, I have an old plastic mug that lives in the cockpit when solo. Like Seashoreman I have seen the RNLI stats for open flies.

 

[Tradewinds]

Not over the side, I have an old plastic mug that lives in the cockpit when solo. Like Seashoreman I have seen the RNLI stats for open flies.

Open flies doesn't necessarily mean you were peeing.

You just might have forgotten to zip them up (sailor aged 66)

So that stat is flawed IMO.