Windlass why electric

[geem]

My windlass doesn't have multiple speeds, just the one, and dragging 20 tons of boat along is clearly imposing an unnecessary strain.


My boat weighs about 20 tons, the anchor and chain weighs a bit less.

Interestingly, the largest load we see imposed on our windlass is not when using it to pull the boat forward. Once the boat is over the well set anchor the windlass will then struggle to unset the anchor in a vertical pull. At this point, I will often drive forward to unset the anchor otherwise the windlass simply stalls. 18/19t boat with a 30kg Spade anchor, Lofrans Falkon windlass with 1700w motor.

 

[geem]

You're missing something there. A spec saying "series wound" tells you nothing about the load capacity of that particular motor.

I wasn't telling you the load capacity. I was telling you about the design of the motor. The fact that it is specifically designed to move large loads.

 

[penberth3]

I wasn't telling you the load capacity. I was telling you about the design of the motor. The fact that it is specifically designed to move large loads.

Without giving power and torque that still means nothing. I give up.

 

[geem]

Without giving power and torque that still means nothing. I give up.

Makes two of us!

 

[ean_p]

I wasn't telling you the load capacity. I was telling you about the design of the motor. The fact that it is specifically designed to move large loads.

Does your manual tell you it's a simple series motor G as though they have great from the off torque the down side is they will if not loaded simply accelerate to destruction....so unless they have a speed control device they are usually fitted with another winding that prevents that over speeding.....
Mmmmm unless the gear drive gives it some resistance.......

 

[oldbloke]

The seas are full of people merrily using their windlass to pull their boats forwards and then pull their anchors up. I guess they have never been told not to, but somehow get away with it.

 

[dunedin]

The seas are full of people merrily using their windlass to pull their boats forwards and then pull their anchors up. I guess they have never been told not to, but somehow get away with it.

Absolutely. If you have plenty of spare crew, certainly worth using engine to assist in a strong breeze.
But if solo (or similar) then use the windlass carefully, with sensitivity to load, to pull boat forward.
Worst case need to refurb or replace windlass occasionally - but many need that anyway, and windlasses are cheaper than damaged bodies or boat repairs.

PS. Typed that at anchor, and since then successfully lifted anchor using winch - using "mechanical sympathy" as usual to decide when to pull and when to ease. Over 10 years spent roughly £150 per annum on windlass, including recent full rebuild. That is with 100 or so anchoring lifts per season (when through one bow roller!). So 4 nights pa on anchor rather than marina pays for a lot of windlass usage.

 

[GHA]

Worst case need to refurb or replace windlass occasionally - but many need that anyway, and windlasses are cheaper than damaged bodies or boat repairs.

Seems unlikely for anyone with any kind of instinct for mechanics who would have a pained face & break out in a sweat hearing a windlass labour away pulling chain far too tight unnecessarily . Though not everyone was born that way... maybe the "don't pull the boat with this" in some windlass manuals is there for good reason.. -

 

[oldbloke]

Absolutely. If you have plenty of spare crew, certainly worth using engine to assist in a strong breeze.
But if solo (or similar) then use the windlass carefully, with sensitivity to load, to pull boat forward.
Worst case need to refurb or replace windlass occasionally - but many need that anyway, and windlasses are cheaper than damaged bodies or boat repairs.

PS. Typed that at anchor, and since then successfully lifted anchor using winch - using "mechanical sympathy" as usual to decide when to pull and when to ease. Over 10 years spent roughly £150 per annum on windlass, including recent full rebuild. That is with 100 or so anchoring lifts per season (when through one bow roller!). So 4 nights pa on anchor rather than marina pays for a lot of windlass usage.

Surely it's the other way round , in light airs no strain pulling forwards on windless. It's in breeze , waves,foul current that engine +/- technique come into play

 

[geem]

........

 

[PaulRainbow]

Absolutely. If you have plenty of spare crew, certainly worth using engine to assist in a strong breeze.
But if solo (or similar) then use the windlass carefully, with sensitivity to load, to pull boat forward.
Worst case need to refurb or replace windlass occasionally - but many need that anyway, and windlasses are cheaper than damaged bodies or boat repairs.

PS. Typed that at anchor, and since then successfully lifted anchor using winch - using "mechanical sympathy" as usual to decide when to pull and when to ease. Over 10 years spent roughly £150 per annum on windlass, including recent full rebuild. That is with 100 or so anchoring lifts per season (when through one bow roller!). So 4 nights pa on anchor rather than marina pays for a lot of windlass usage.

So, not actually just dragging the boat along with the windlass then ?

Sensible use of the windlass without overloading it

 

[johnphilip]

I try and keep stuff manual where i can,
Equipement i can fix easily.
Replaced the hydraulic pump (manual) which winched up the keel.
Have a manual winch now, replace the lifting wire every year.

Really agree with you over the anchor winch, up until 2005 our Westerly Fulmar (32ft) had a manual anchor winch. I cannot find pictures now but it looked like a sheet winch but lower with a chain gypsy where the winch drum would be and a socket for a winch handle in the top. Brilliant to use. When the boat sheared off and the strain gets heavy, you just paused, but wound quickly as the yacht swung back. Looked for one in 2006 when fitting out new boat but they had already disappeared. Little to go wrong they were brilliant.
Not sure I agree over the hydraulic pump and ram to lift the keel being replaced by a winch, prior to the Fulmar our Hunter Delta had a hand pump to raise the keel and it always worked brilliantly, could see no reason to swap.

 

[GHA]

Little bit of data from using just the windlass to pull up the hook yesterday with no engine involved should anyone be interested. The boat had already been moved closer when taking off the snubber so this is the last 20 odd metres at a guess. Little spike at 12:50:15 pulling the anchor out of the sand then it uses a little bit more power pulling up the hook and chain than when moving the boat forward. Just like the other "been anchoring for donkeys" guys already posted, do it slowly the windlass doesn't have a tough life!

 

[geem]

Little bit of data from using just the windlass to pull up the hook yesterday with no engine involved should anyone be interested. The boat had already been moved closer when taking off the snubber so this is the last 20 odd metres at a guess. Little spike at 12:50:15 pulling the anchor out of the sand then it uses a little bit more power pulling up the hook and chain than when moving the boat forward. Just like the other "been anchoring for donkeys" guys already posted, do it slowly the windlass doesn't have a tough life!

View attachment 175921

Yep, that is what I would expect. We put way more load on the windlass motor for the actual breakout of the anchor, unless we motor over it to break it out.

 

[Neeves]

The problem arises when the weather turns out to be more rigorous than expected from the forecast. You sit it out, for a time - thinking 'it will return to forecast' and then you decide to retreat.

By now there is a bit of chop and the anchor has set more deeply. You remove the snubber and motor forward until you are near over the anchor - the chop, and the more deeply set anchor cause snatch loads - then the windlass can be stressed.

Windlass seem to cater for this, they are surprisingly robust - and many survive for decades without service.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

The problem arises when the weather turns out to be more rigorous than expected from the forecast. You sit it out, for a time - thinking 'it will return to forecast' and then you decide to retreat.

By now there is a bit of chop and the anchor has set more deeply. You remove the snubber and motor forward until you are near over the anchor - the chop, and the more deeply set anchor cause snatch loads - then the windlass can be stressed.

Windlass seem to cater for this, they are surprisingly robust - and many survive for decades without service.

Jonathan

So?