Chain sticking in windlass

[SimonNZ]

Hi all

In our Beneteau anchor locker, a previous owner had screwed a quarter-piece of PVC pipe horizontally across the front of the 'slot', shown as a red line in this image.



It got broken off but when we got the boat, the lower chain ran over the TOP of the PVC before falling into the locker. Chain piled further forward, and more chain makes contact with the gypsy.

I experimented without the PVC before it broke; no problem with the piling but as there's a decent distance from top of gypsy to bow roller, after a few seconds bounce is introduced which slips the chain on the gypsy, so I put it back to gain the extra purchase.

I'm not sure what the configuration is supposed to be. There's was a hole for the spill but that seems to be ground off (unlike the pawl, looks like it caught under speed and sheared out of the casing). The original existence of that hole suggests there's only supposed to be a quarter-turn contact on the gypsy but perhaps that varies from boat to boat.

Also, the lower chain tends to grab when the anchor is being pulled up, mostly due to tie-wraps (sometimes multiple) that someone added as markers. My intention is to remove those, take all the chain out and paint new markers - but I see they're still a really popular option as markers, easy to see and replace, so I'm surprised they are able to cause such an issue. If you're not really careful, the falling chain comes back up under the upper, leading to lots of jamming, messing with the clutch, hitting the chain with things and swearing.

It seems the best approach would be to fit some sort of idler at the front of that slot, or even just a rod of stainless properly mounted, to get things back to how they were - but it doesn't really 'feel' right to me especially since the falling chain can drift from left to right depending on the piling.

Any advice or comparison with your own windlasses and experience would be appreciated; how much bounce do you get between gypsy and roller, do you get the same 'stick' when pulling in, how much chain contacts your gypsy and how do you prevent slippage?

I'm aware I should measure the chain and check the gypsy is the correct size too. I have not done that yet, need to learn how!

As a side note, I'm fascinated by the missing cleat. The remaining step is very clean, almost as if it was removed at the factory or never forged. Is this common?


cheers!

 

[NormanS]

Normally the chain is only expected to engage with about 90° of the gypsy. This is ensured by having a "stripper", a piece of metal attached to the body of the windlass, which does just that. The chain then drops vertically into the chain locker. I suspect that the stripper is missing from your windlass. I'm assuming that your windlass is a Lofrans.

 

[[2574]]

Another cause can be a DIN/ISO size mismatch between chain and gypsy. Unlikely if the kit is all original but if chain or gypsy has been changed there might be a mismatch.

 

[Boathook]

The chain does look a tight fit on the gypsy so as Robih possibly the incorrect chain.

 

[Neeves]

The chain for which the gypsy is intended is commonly engraved or embossed on the gypsy, often on the internal surface of the gypsy plates, but sometimes on the outside as part of the casting. Take the gypsy off and have a look.

The windlass looks well used, or poorly cared for, and the chain looks in good nick. It is possible the chain is newer than the windlass. It would be unlikely you have an imperial chain for a metric gypsy (they are very different) - but you might have a poorly made (cheap) chain. It is really unlikely your chain has stretched (unless it was sourced from a garden centre). The specifications for chain are easy to source using Google - check your chain length for 20 links. If you are unsure about measuring - cut off 20 links at the anchor, take to your nearest reputable chandler, lay your 20 links alongside 20 links of the same size chain, measured in millimeters - the two chains should be the same.

Multiple cable ties could cause an issue - but not as much as paint (which may have your chain rejected if you ever want to regalvanise). As you intend, cut the old cable ties off.

Jonathan

 

[Graham376]

If using 10mm chain, ISO and DIN (2mm difference in link size) can look correct on normal 1/4 turn but can stick or jump when hauling. Put a complete wrap of chain around the gypsy and it will be immediately evident of it's the wrong calibration.

 

[SimonNZ]

Thanks for all the tips, everyone! I don't know the age or history of the chain or gypsy. I'll measure the chain and see if there are any values on the gypsy.

It's a Lofrans Tigres windlass. Googling tends to bring up newer models and there's no actual model number on ours, so it's been a case of photo-matching to try and find what the original looked like. So far I've only noted the missing spill hole and pawl.

When the gypsy is off I'll see if there are any mountings for a stripper or any indication that something else has been ground off.

 

[Bilgediver]

If using the correct chain then a stripper is not required. This is why calibrated chain should be used. This is chain which has passed inspection in regards to correctly sized links over its full length.

 

[NormanS]

If using the correct chain then a stripper is not required. This is why calibrated chain should be used. This is chain which has passed inspection in regards to correctly sized links over its full length.

One has to wonder why Lofrans doesn't agree with you, and fits a stripper.

 

[Neeves]

If using 10mm chain, ISO and DIN (2mm difference in link size) can look correct on normal 1/4 turn but can stick or jump when hauling. Put a complete wrap of chain around the gypsy and it will be immediately evident of it's the wrong calibration.

This could be discounted if the OP simply told us the link size. Its easy to measure and differentiate 8mm, 10mm and 12mm.

The chain does not look old, nor misused. Modern, professionally made chain is continuously calibrated (and proof tested) during the process - unless the chain was really cheap (and the OP like most owners of 'second hand yachts' has no idea of the detail and history of much on the yacht).

We can only throw out ideas.

Jonathan

 

[MontyMariner]

I've always thought that the stripper was for use on mixed rode as a Rope stripper rather than for chain.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I have an old Lofrans Tigres which gas a chain stripper as shown on the above diagram as fig 355 fitted with 2 threaded setscrews

It also looks like the fig 332 ant rollback catch is also missing

 

[[2574]]

This could be discounted if the OP simply told us the link size. Its easy to measure and differentiate 8mm, 10mm and 12mm.

The chain does not look old, nor misused. Modern, professionally made chain is continuously calibrated (and proof tested) during the process - unless the chain was really cheap (and the OP like most owners of 'second hand yachts' has no idea of the detail and history of much on the yacht).

We can only throw out ideas.

Jonathan

Is that the case with 10mm chain? I thought the DIN and ISO 10mm chain looks very similar indeed, it is only when they are mismatched gypsy/chain that the difference is obvious. Yes I agree that it’s easy to visually differentiate 8, 10 and 12mm chain.

 

[vyv_cox]

Is that the case with 10mm chain? I thought the DIN and ISO 10mm chain looks very similar indeed, it is only when they are mismatched gypsy/chain that the difference is obvious. Yes I agree that it’s easy to visually differentiate 8, 10 and 12mm chain.

ISO and DIN specs are the same size for 8 and 12 mm but different for 10 mm. All sizes here Chain

 

[lustyd]

It's a Lofrans Tigres windlass

Are you sure it’s not a Goiot? They look very similar but if original and French built it could well be Goiot.

 

[Neeves]

Is that the case with 10mm chain? I thought the DIN and ISO 10mm chain looks very similar indeed, it is only when they are mismatched gypsy/chain that the difference is obvious. Yes I agree that it’s easy to visually differentiate 8, 10 and 12mm chain.

Sorry I was not clear.

If its 6mm, 8mm or 12mm there is no confusion. The confusion only arises if its 10mm and if the OP declared it was 6mm, 8mm or 12mm - it does not matter. If its 10mm he needs to measure the link AND look at the gypsy, for its specified size match - and using the wrong spec of chain could be easily ruled, in or out.

The OP knows he has to check the sizing on the gypsy itself, Vyv has offered a source providing chain dimensions.

If this was clarified we might then define what else might be wrong (or not).

Not uncommon - we don't have enough information from the OP.

Jonathan

 

[SimonNZ]

Thanks very much everyone for all the input. Here's another pic to show it's at least labelled as a Lofrans
I'll get the chain measuring done next.